First Attempt

[goosetown]

Once again, I think we come to a place where we straddle a fine line.

I think there is much importance and legitimacy in someone expressing their views. Perhaps I was a little less than clear about this. My bad. And by the way, I'm all ears when someone suggests and aesthetic choice that I disagree with as long as they explain it. Again...then I learn something, even if it doesn't change my mind about the subject in particular on which we're speaking.

What I've encountered over and over that's disappointing is the dismissiveness of experts towards myself and others when we're asking a question. Especially when we're asking a practical question. In another forum I once queried about fertilizers, posting a picture of one of my trees. An "expert" answered with, "Before you worry about fertilizer, you might want to be concerned with having something nice enough to fertilize. Write again when you learn how to pinch off new growth." This was three days after I'd received the tree and long before I started toying with it. To make matters worse, a flurry of other posters agreed with him. It was ten posts in before someone bothered to answer my question.

I stopped posting there. Unfortunately, as I said, my nascent endeavors have found this to be the rule as opposed to the exception. Assumptions where questions were more appropriate, rudeness, condescension, etc. Hopefully I've just run into more negativity up front than is typical. There's every chance.

It's the attitude. It's the eye-rolling. It's the fact that some of these people make it clear that they don't have time for my novice questions, but they do have time to tell me EXACTLY what they would have done different with MY tree. Again, these examples can be found as a subset in any interest, hobby, or realm of knowledge. It just seems far more prevalent in bonsai culture, as if some opinions are are intrinsically more precious than others. I probably have more to learn than any bonsaist on the planet. And learning I'm totally game for. But being inexperienced doesn't make me an idiot, and not liking the same things a "master" likes doesn't mean my interests are crap.

Hope it's a little clearer now what I'm getting at; sorry if I was a bit vague before.

 

[daygan]

goosetown, I think your spirit of innovation is good. Rules/guidelines are good and helpful, and a lot of people like to stay within those boundaries, and that's fine, but who says everyone has to live inside the box? I don't say it

As far as first "instincts", I have a few:

1. Personally, I like conifers to look like conifers. This tree, with the shape that it's in right now, looks more like a tree of the angiosperm variety. You might want to consider angling branches a little differently at some point when the tree's ready to be styled (probably somewhat downward).

2. I think conifers look good when they've got a bit of a wild, natural, daring-the-elements kind of a feel to them, like these by grouper52:

You might want to go through his threads for inspiration (if you think his work is something that you'd like to draw from in your bonsai).

3. As far as your general plan, I'm not positive that I'm picturing what you're saying exactly the way you are, but I think it's all right. Just try to keep things more in line with a conifer. Maybe if you could take a picture of or scan a drawing of what you're thinking of doing, or edit a photograph, we could see more clearly where you might be headed.

I hope that helps

 

[goosetown]

3. As far as your general plan, I'm not positive that I'm picturing what you're saying exactly the way you are, but I think it's all right. Just try to keep things more in line with a conifer. Maybe if you could take a picture of or scan a drawing of what you're thinking of doing, or edit a photograph, we could see more clearly where you might be headed.

I hope that helps

It helps greatly, and thanks for the examples. On your urging, I threw together a terribly ratty vert to show, as of this moment, the direction I'm thinking of taking the tree as far as pruning off the foliage:



From there, I plan on working thusly:

1. Bending the trunk AWAY from the rock (to the left, in this picture), probably to more of a 45-degree angle.

2. Straightening out the pad on the lowermost left branch so that it looks natural with the bend of the trunk.

3. The top of the trunk currently bends to the left; with the bottom of the trunk bent away from the rock, I'd bend the top back in the other direction (again, probably at a 45-degree angel) so that the crown and uppermost right branch extend OVER the rock. I'd then subsequently begin training growth more in that direction.

I'm concerned that #3 might be too much of a swing, so I might focus on straightening it first and then bending it back right over time. Of course it's all going to depend on how pliable it is, what the root situation looks like, etc. But I think this design is a good possibility that isn't TOO divergent from what's already there while still looking natural over the course of the tree's life. I also might elect to prune a little bit less to give myself some options as the tree continues to grow.

 

[TheDarkHorseOne]

Howdy, goose. Sorry I'm late to this party, but isn't that fashionable in some circles?

I'd like to toss out a couple comments on rocks and trees and things as a fellow rook aspiring one day to perhaps be a knight, but not too much so.

I guess you could call me a book learner at this point, and I don't find that a bad thing. In fact, I think the development of a knowledge base, however you go about it, will ultimately help you in the long run. What I personally lack is the hands on experience, which I'll be moving through as I progress along both here, and in real life. I don't find that to be a deficit within myself, just an initial cornerstone upon which to build. I have plans of clubbing it, heheh, here in town eventually, and selecting trees as I go along that may or may not eventually become a bonsai. Call them learning tools.

Just a little background for you to kind of get a feel for my point of view in 'light' of what a search beam's scrutiny some further on down the line might shine.

In my reading, and it isn't just esoteric, rocks are sometimes used to hide a character flaw in the tree, generally when the roots aren't really up to spec. You'll see it a lot on slanted trees or cascades, right up next to the trunk. If you will, a substitute for a lacking anchor of roots. Experts use this technique, not just rookies.

In your rock's case, it isn't being used for that. I don't mind it, and don't find it offensive. In fact, if you wanted to surround your tree with little green plastic army men, if it pleased you, by all means. I think you and I are at such a point. We want to please our senses first, and it's a good starting line. Will either your rock or my plastic army men stand up to judging anywhere but within our own minds? NO. I think that's where the pros are coming from here. I tend to lean toward the general thinking that America is in it's bonsai infancy. What places here isn't thought of as worthy of consideration for a booby prize elsewhere in the world. I'm speaking generally here, as I know there are artists in this nation that could garner world interest, but largely, there is no structure for a conforming culture. What may win a club's show wouldn't sniff the judges table in another part of this same country. What we admire most comes from overseas, not our own shores, and that's what we try to emulate. To me, that's fine. We have to learn to crawl before we can walk, or run. I'm not sure I'll ever fit into that equation, because I don't want to capture the world's attention, I just want to be happy with what I have and what I'm doing. I think that's fine. I don't want to move mountains. I just want to be moved by small success and personal gratification. If the mountain eventually is moved by my small work or yours or others, we gain. Perhaps one rock at a time?

On your tree, my mind immediately thought slant style. Don't know why other than my own whimsy. I've only played with conifers a little and killed one outright. I just say do what you feel, and take what you can from those with the time and inclination to give here. Eventually, there will be an accord, but it's my thought that you are doing this to please yourself before any of them. As long as the dialogue is palatable, and the knowledge sound, then we all gain in some satisfactory way.

 

[milehigh_7]

Hey Goose I hope you realize by now and all the other newcomers as well that there is a great deal of friendly sarcasm in the Nuthouse. Normally no serious offence is intended and the "rock" thing is kind of an old joke.