First ever pot. Thoughts?

Adair M

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#41
@just.wing.it , @Vin thanks a lot guys. Hoping the fireing goes well.
@Adair M thank you so much for the feedback. It's the first time I heard of Bigei pottery, but his work is amazing! Spent this afternoon scouring the internet for his pots.
The reason I have to dabble in oxides is that the clay bodies I'm using are so lightly coloured that when fired they look almost white and unglazed wouldn't match any tree. Sadly I haven't found anyhing that I can get my hands on that's naturally a darker colour and can stand high fireing temperatures :(.
Anything I do in the next months should be seen as an experiment. As I'm so new to this, I'm still trying to figure out what's what, what goes, what doesn't so honest oppinions whether good or bad will help me a lot.
As I said, I don’t know anything of pottery. But, yeah, finding good examples to emulate is a good idea.

There aren’t many American potters who make good,dark clay unglazed pots. There are several making nice glazed pots, and the oxide market has its players.

I’m just pointing out an area in the market where I have perceived an opening.
 

Anthony

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#43
Like, but remember the pot is to tree as frame is to oil painting.
When the onlooker, says to you in a Bonsai exhibition ------------ nice pot.
You know you went too far.

You can also express yourself at Pottery Exhibitions, with fine wares [ vases, plates, images
on flat sheets, like paintings on canvas or sculpture. ]

So I encourage you to refine, but watch the % of decoration.
Good Day
Anthony

* This is probably why Bonsai Pots, may not be too popular with Potters.
Even a wheel tossed dinner plate can have fine decoration.

Bonsai pots are often production line material.
No real individuality.
 
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#44
Like, but remember the pot is to tree as frame is to oil painting.
When the onlooker, says to you in a Bonsai exhibition ------------ nice pot.
You know you went too far.

You can also express yourself at Pottery Exhibitions, with fine wares [ vases, plates, images
on flat sheets, like paintings on canvas or sculpture. ]

So I encourage you to refine, but watch the % of decoration.
Good Day
Anthony

* This is probably why Bonsai Pots, may not be too popular with Potters.
Even a wheel tossed dinner plate can have fine decoration.

Bonsai pots are often production line material.
No real individuality.
Oh there's not a shread of doubt that it'a a wee bit too much :)). Ok... maybe more that a wee bit. Was looking with my wife through an art deco architecture book and got 'inspired'. More an excercise in slab buiding than practical bonsai pottery. For tomorow I have something a lot more utilitarian in mind :).
 

sorce

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#45
When the onlooker, says to you in a Bonsai exhibition ------------ nice pot.
You know you went too far.
Love this!

But I see things going this way....
More intricate pots...
"Things"...
Not Traditional Bonsai...

But an appreciation for trees, or any plants for that matter, in more interesting, "futuristic" pots.

I appreciate it greatly.

But it is an eyesore at a traditional show...
(Thinking of that chrome tree)

I think the artistry of it gets lost, or, stands out in a bad way, amongst the ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SET OF DETAILS we try to convey in other displays.

I like the way Ryan Neil presents these more "artistic" bonsai. I hope he creates a comfortable outlet for these beautiful, yet very misfit trees.

Sectored off at a traditional show, fine, do it right, do it intentionally different.

But please for the Respect of the Tradition that is a dark pot, a dark stand, a simple accent, and a beautiful tree.

@Mihai I generally don't like these pots with "space shuttle" feet run up the side, but something about this ones proportions, dimensions, the way the angles on the layers is different...makes it feel better.

Right now I can't see a me tree in it, but I look forward to the possibility of it finished, changing my mind!

The other one is dope!

Are you making these for trees you have?
Future trees?
Sales?

Sorce
 

Anthony

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#47
Actually @sorce ,

there is a Chinese production pot that uses those side bits.
Just more in keeping with a Bonsai pot.
K just dug up some clay to get Nick to make a bigger version.

When it is done, I will send an image.
Good Day
Anthony

Ps. Now try the boars on the exteriors, but as coin type images.
Bas relief
Imagine...........

Less reality, more stylization.

https://flic.kr/p/7tvMZq
She used to sell really cool stuff on Amazon
http://www.happybonsai.com/happy-bonsai-shop/
 
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#48
@jriddell88 thanks :). Much appreciated.

@sorce I agree with most of what you said completely. Traditional Japanese bonsai is beautiful exactly because of the rigorousness of it, the rules that make it such a complicated art of masking myriads of constraints and wrapping them in a facade of elegant simplicity.
On the other hand, I really, really enjoy the 'naturalistic' approach of Walter Pall, the outlandishness of Nick Lenz's displays, Mirai's sometimes odd tree choices that deviate from the standards, extravagant pots like the ones made by Atelier Bonsai Element. I see this new age approach as rather a progression on the 1000 year old art rather that an attempt to usurp it. Just like what grimdark is for the fantasy genre.
As I see it, more modern approaches focus on the whole of the presentation, putting the pot, the display and the tree on equal footing to create a visual effect, rather than using all other elements to augment the tree. This for me is an art in itself. It has little to do with traditional Japanese bonsai (mostly the horticultural practices) and that is good. As you said, putting the two together will sometimes make them clash. But if one's focus is strictly artistic, visual, and one puts age old preconceptions aside, I think one can see both as superb forms of art and craftsmanship. Somewhat like enjoying wine... you can do it in a fancy three piece suite from a crystal glass, but it will taste just as good at home, from a mug, in front of a warm fireplace.
It's just a question of what you take as a point of reference: the tradition or the aesthetic value.

And that being said, I started making these pots because I wanted to do something completely different from what I do at work. I wanted to do something with my hands, find an outlet for all the pent up energy that I can't let loose in an office with 20 more people. So far, I've only made a few... what I posted and two or three more doodles besides. They're not tailored for my trees (honestly I don't really have any trees far enough along to be out of the training pots) but rather on the spur of the moment, as I want to try different shapes and sizes, geometries, etc. I post them here because, in the end, I would love to make them functional and actually useful to someone. So feedback (as much as can be gained without actually seeing them in person) is what will get me closer to functionality.
As for selling, I'm really not sure anyone would buy them. If I can sell a couple locally to cover the cost of clay and firing and be able to go on making them without drowning in pots or wasting money for something nobody will ever use, I'd be happy. If not, I'll probably keep making them even if it's a money waster because hey... I wasted a lot more money on more useless shit :).

@Anthony curious how that pot you're talking about turns out :).
 

Anthony

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#49
@Mihai,

it won't be anything that dramatic. I leave an image of it below.
All Nick will be doing is a bigger version.
Yi Xing has already figured out how to go "modern", but still hold the
market.

@sorce , explores the world of the Literati, as his pots go.
This is the ancient Chinese Literati, highly educated and artistically
talented men.
Which today gets slurred into ---- the unusual ----- and often the
unattractive.

Because we returned Bonsai / Penjing to the world of contemplation and
stimulation of the imagination, we can use simple shapes.
Focus on the Health and Design of the tree.
As was done originally in Ancient China.

That desire to create new shapes and old glazes anew - oil spot - ash glaze variations
will probably end up as old trying to dress in new clothes.

So we step out and away.

Try digging your own clay, it adds a new dimension to the experience of the fired
shapes.
The more you learn about the techniques of clay, the more the imagination
and the mind grows.
Which leads to a greater sense of achievement and greater contentment as one
ages.
Good Day
Anthony

As you can see a pleasant but simple shape.
Needs a chance as a bigger pot.
Also allows Nick to slowly work his way up to more complicated shapes.

He will also smoothen without sandpaper and learn about how to do
pearskin.

ficus t 3.jpg
 
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#50
@Anthony that pot looks great.

Ant chance you have a top-down photo of it? I'm curios how the wall thickness is with those 'buttresses"
.
Have a good one!
 

Anthony

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#51
Try this for fun.

Get -
15 to 20 a very plastic clay -------- not bentonite ---- has no body.

20 of an commercial earthenware clear glaze

60 to 65 sand --------------- not super fine and mixed sizes.
[ as usual in the Pottery room, water to clean up with and try not to sand too much ]

Knead and you should have a plastic body.

Make a pot.

As they say raw glaze.

Test to see what temperature a hand made cone collapses.
We have a test kiln for doing the work.
No spoiling a proper kiln.

A Cone is a snake about this thick [ ] say 8 cm tall.
with a flattened bottom so it can stand.
Good Day
Anthony

A sand Bonsai Pot. Oxide / body colour / Mason Stain
added to give colour.
Given away as a gift.

Hand made on a banding wheel.

serissa 2 IBC.jpg

A Nic made pot. [ Nic was about 17/18 and is now 21 ]
Smoothened in the raw state.

Was glazed later
Slab built. No need to sand.
Finer grog.

pot210.jpg
 

Anthony

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#52
Mihai,

it is probably made on an internal shape or cast.

The Chinese can make a solid rectangle, in this case out of plaster of paris.
Then build the shape on the out side.
So it is a rectangle with side pieces added.

Pot is in use, but when repotting I will send in an image ----- probably
next month.
Good Day
Anthony

* Probably simpler to make a slab pot and add the side pieces.
 

sorce

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#53
like enjoying wine... you can do it in a fancy three piece suite from a crystal glass, but it will taste just as good at home, from a mug,
Technically.....

The shape of the wine glass aerates it so it will taste different to the very discerning!

I reckon! Taste is taste and I'll take my drunk in a mug!

I am totally with you on everything else!
Excellent thoughts.

@Anthony ...no boars on the outside for the purpose of simplicity!
I find the bottom of a pot perfect to express any needed artisticisms.

But what I do isn't adding anything on purpose. As is the case with the boars, the feet and holes mafe the boars, then they were accentuated and came to be.

Most of my joy comes from finding these shapes in the clay!

Northern Pike. 20180303_180530.jpg

Lol! I was going to move a boar reply to a Sorce Pots thread before I even realized there are no boars here in the first place!

Is that called.. Hiland jacking a thread!?

Sorce
 
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#54
@sorce you can hijack all you like :)). hopefully Bonsai Nut has a large enough data base to accommodate both our ranting :)).
Looking forward to some new pots from you... need ideas to steal :p
 
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sorce

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#55
@sorce you can hijack all you like :)). hopefully Bonsai Nut has a large enough data base to accommodate both out ranting :)).
Looking forward to some new pots from you... need ideas to steal :p
I wonder if I can hide Walter Pall's gift pot in this thread? Hehehe!
In CM 28x23x8...9x11x3in...
I'm going this month to see W.P., and with time constraints, but also, how god Damn nice this thing went together, I signed it, "to Walter" and sealed the deal!

20180305_093537.jpg
20180305_093544.jpg

Some Oddball shit in various stages of dry....
The grey one will be a tabletop fountain if all goes well! 20180304_102650_Burst01.jpg
20180304_102711.jpg
20180304_102735.jpg
20180304_102752.jpg
20180304_102740.jpg

Sorce
 

Smoke

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#60
No worries Smoke. Given that I'm not even sure how I feel about it, it's hard to take offense.
But... challange me.. what would you like to see next?
Your a good guy. I will think about the challenge. I have a few things to think about, but preparing for a trip to Disneyland with my new girl. I will post soon though.

Let me leave you with this though...most of the pieces so far have been porcelain clay or similar. I think your niche may be in the glazing of some of the pieces. Reproduce some of the rich glazings that the Japanese are doing and make a mark in the world. Don't pour three or four glazes on and then turn the piece upside down in the kiln to make some obscure Jackson Pollack piece. Stay true, and stay clean and simple and you will stand out. Like @Anthony said in a post, keep in mind its a picture frame and meant to compliment not dominate.