First ever seedlings

[Haines' Trees]

Here I have a couple examples of some JWP seedlings I’ve managed to grow this season.


Since I kind of figured it all out a tad late this season my seedlings are slightly smaller than they ought to be in June. Or maybe they aren’t? I’ve began to wonder if they’ll grow strong enough before winter hits. Thoughts?

 

[Orion_metalhead]

They look a little leggy, but you can try wiring them to give the longer stem some nice movement once applicable. There are some real pine masters on this site so I would defer to them as to timing on that. They look healthy otherwise to me.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You are in the greater Chicagoland area, as am I. I have a couple JWP from seed. JWP is a moderately high elevation pine, adapted to short growing seasons. Your seed are essentially ''right on time'' they will have plenty of time to develop and harden off before winter. Do not baby these trees. Full sun, if they are not in full sun, step them into full sun incrementally as the summer progresses.

For winter they can tolerate Chicago cold if on the ground and buried in snow. Or if in an unheated shed. Caution - garages can get too warm during the day in winter. They need to get cold and stay cold. In some ways a shed is preferable because it avoids staying too wet. A coarse potting mix will also keep them from being too wet. No standing in water during autumn of winter. But don't dry them bone dry, that is too dry. They are not a ''beginner tree'' for this reason.

I would not wire the stems until the later half of the second growing season. They are too fragile, not so much the stem but the roots are fragile. Jostling while wiring can be a problem.

Good luck. These are great long term projects.

 

[GGB]

I grew them from seed a few years ago, all sprouted super late but did fine regardless. yours look pretty tall, getting enough sun? Mine were very short and stout, didn't need help standing up. Not knockin' ya, just wondering if they're getting what they need

 

[moved on]

Hi Everyone,

I'm fairly new to the bonsai world but I've bought a few trees that have been successful over about a year.

I've also been trying my hand at growing pine seedlings (not entirely sure of the exact name as they were from a mixed bag). Mine are also looking very spindly. I read somewhere about techniques of thickening the stem but I'm a bit nervous to try them out. Does anyone have any advice on how I should go about thickening them out a bit?

They get plenty of sun at a South-facing window but I live in the UK so Sun can be problem. I've experimented with a grow light as well.

 

[Haines' Trees]

Update:
They’ve been outside since a bit before my original posting, hardening off nicely. One of my seedlings succumbed to hail damage (yes in July, because Chicago) and another in our nasty heat wave. Still have the two from the picture, plus 4 others, all about this size.



I kept my first seedlings inside under a grow light for a few weeks which is probably how they got leggy.

Astrophysicist, did you plant your seed into a bonsai pot straight away? I’m also new to bonsai, so I may be in the completely wrong area code here, but don’t seeds need a chance to put roots down, like vertically downward, in the early stages of development? I know there are tricks to get the roots laid out in a way that is conducive to shallower bonsai pots as the tree develops, maybe your pot is just too shallow?

The pots I’ve got my seedlings in are are still taller than the seedlings themselves. What I noticed in mine once I moved them outside was nothing but improved health. As Leo said above, don’t baby them. I was afraid the summer would kill them pretty quickly, but I was wrong! The ones not killed by hail or 105* weather or the neighbors dog are doing amazing. If you have short, British summers maybe that’s all the more reason to put them out...

 

[moved on]

Astrophysicist, did you plant your seed into a bonsai pot straight away? I’m also new to bonsai, so I may be in the completely wrong area code here, but don’t seeds need a chance to put roots down, like vertically downward, in the early stages of development? I know there are tricks to get the roots laid out in a way that is conducive to shallower bonsai pots as the tree develops, maybe your pot is just too shallow?

Hi. No, the seedling were in a taller pot for the first few months. Looking back on the whole experience, I did a lot of things wrong. I think the biggest problem was not taking them out soon enough and not choosing the right seedlings for my environment. It's been a good learning experience though.

Sadly, they all died due to lack of light - we had prolonged cloudy weather when they really needed full Sun. I did actually move them back to the large pot before for the reasons you described.

However, I did get my hands on a Japanese Maple cutting which is doing really well - I've used a lot of what I learnt with the seedlings, including the pot size.

I'm really pleased you're having more success!

 

[Shibui]

Seedlings are not babies as we know them. Seedlings have been coping with sun, flood, storm, drought and herbivores for millions of years without us helping. Most seedlings are hardy to natural conditions the species would normally encounter.
Sunlight is important for plants. They need it to make food. Sunlight is also has powerful antifungal properties so tender seedlings are better protected from fungal problems like 'damping off' when they have sun and fresh, moving air. darker places with still air are a haven for pests and diseases.
Seedlings do not need deep containers. Most do try to grow a deep root first in case of dry weather but we make sure they don't encounter dry so deep roots are redundant in bonsai. I root prune most seedlings as soon as I can handle them. Cut the main down root really short ad that stimulates lots of lateral roots which is desirable for bonsai. deeper containers are only useful if you do not water well enough or often enough.
Even seedlings that I don't get around to root pruning are grown in seed flats just 1" deep. The roots just grow in the space that is available.

 

[Haines' Trees]

See, I was in the wrong area code haha

 

[Haines' Trees]

Hey all!

Update here in late November. They grew strong throughout the summer, this is the largest I have left (my dog killed all but 5...). Just about 6 months out of the ground, but they’ve started to bronze as the weather gets cold. We had a brief cold snap where the temperature went below 20. Before it got that cold I put them in a cold frame and mulched up to the top of the pots. Since then they’ve started to lose their bright green luster.

Should I be worried or is this pretty natural?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm not going to say you should not be worried. But from my experience with various types of pines, I believe turning color is a winter thing for most young conifers.
My local scots pines don't turn color, but the italian ones do, my japanese red pines (50% at least) as well as my JBP and Jack pine tend to get a more golden tone, sometimes even reddish orange. All of them go back green again in spring. At least, they did last year. Same happened to my junipers, at least, the non-native ones.
Again, I'm not sure if you should be worried, but I'm not.

 

[sorce]

pretty

Can't make out a prominent central bud, that'll tell you if it'll make it.
At this point needles aren't necessary, but that bud will be.

Sorce

 

[Haines' Trees]

Here’s a look from another angle at that same seedling. Looks like a bud to me but not sure if it has the prominence you’re talking about Sorce. Hoping I can get a couple through the winter; it usually hits really cold temperatures in January/February around here so I think that’ll be the true test.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My JWP seedlings spend the winter, with the pot set on the ground. no mulch to speak of, though the wind does blow leaves over them episodically over the winter. It is normal for winter color to get very yellow, or bronze. Not an issue.

Do watch out - with a cold frame or other enclosed winter storage - humidity can get too high. I have an underground well house I use for less winter tolerant species. I had a lot of trouble with rots, fungi and other issues the first year. Then I added a small fan to keep the air moving. The fan was left on 24/7, all my fungi-rot-mold issues went away. It was still humid, only had to water about once a month, but the air movement prevented issues. It your cold frame causes rots in some of your trees, add a fan, and problems should disappear.

 

[Haines' Trees]

I built the cold frame with one open side. I fold a layer of plastic over the open side occasionally (basically on exceptionally windy days to keep them from desiccating really hard). That should probably work, right?

 

[Haines' Trees]

So spring is arriving, and I’ve managed to get 4 seedlings through the winter. 2 of them are pushing needles which is nice to see. The other two however, are not pushing at all. One of these two I’m fairly sure is dead; it’s been bronzing up and looking really weak. The other one I’m not sure about. I was thinking about pulling it from the pot and looking for white root tips to see if it’s alive. Good idea or no? Should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Pictures of the seedlings?

 

[Haines' Trees]

Here’s the one that I’m pretty sure is dead

and here is the one that I’m kinda so so on. A picture of it’s bud, or where it should be anyway


I hit all my pines with iron and have been keeping an eye on pH levels so far this year and all that stuff is in the green right now

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Idk. Looks like it doeant have any viable buds or candles forming. Someone else probably will have a better idea.

 

[Haines' Trees]

I think I’ll leave it out for a couple more weeks regardless. Maybe it’ll come back to life but it definitely isn’t looking great. I fertilized it today so maybe that’ll help