First mature tree bought from midamerica bonsai show, any advice?

drip

Yamadori
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Location
Itasca, IL
USDA Zone
5b
Picked this tree up yesterday from the Midamerica bonsai exhibition, what are your guys’ thoughts and opinions? Liked it for the base thickness and nebari. Not sure what my future plan should be, I was with my girlfriend so I couldn’t talk with the vendor long. The pot is massive, how many years should I wait until downsizing the pot? Main trunk splits into multiple trunks, should I keep this multi trunk broom style and if so, how do I further refine it? Haven’t worked with any maple this mature yet so I don’t want to ruin it. Should I just wait until fall before trying to think about any structural things? Cool guy, gave me his number if I had questions but figured I’d ask here first. I can grab more pics later if needed.
 

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Base looks good. What's the height of the tree, and width of the base? Hard to see the rest until the leaves fall. Personally I won't buy a maple unless I can see it naked, in winter. But it looks like you have a good trunk to start with, and that's most important part. Yes, I'd wait till fall or leaf drop to see what you're working with. You can still draw pics or find pictures of a JM you'd like to create. Good luck. :)
 
in late winter, just as the buds are moving, you should repot it into a shallow pot with bonsai soil. This would be a good time to do root grafts as well, since the roots are large but with gaps.

This tree will be easiest to keep in an informal broom style, for which it is a really good start.
 
Base looks good. What's the height of the tree, and width of the base? Hard to see the rest until the leaves fall. Personally I won't buy a maple unless I can see it naked, in winter. But it looks like you have a good trunk to start with, and that's most important part. Yes, I'd wait till fall or leaf drop to see what you're working with. You can still draw pics or find pictures of a JM you'd like to create. Good luck. :)
Just measured with a tape measure, 13in tall and not sure where to measure width, it’s like almost 2inches above where it stops flaring out. I was thinking something like this picture would be ideal if possible.
 

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in late winter, just as the buds are moving, you should repot it into a shallow pot with bonsai soil. This would be a good time to do root grafts as well, since the roots are large but with gaps.

This tree will be easiest to keep in an informal broom style, for which it is a really good start.
So repot next repotting season?
 
Just measured with a tape measure, 13in tall and not sure where to measure width, it’s like almost 2inches above where it stops flaring out. I was thinking something like this picture would be ideal if possible.
Your goal example looks like a nice broom style . Yes, repot it next year as the buds begin to swell & before they leaf out. And read up on how to form secondary branching.
 
Far better to wait until the leaves are gone so you can see the structure clearly.
I suspect your example tree is a Ficus but Japanese maples have a similar growth pattern and style with ascending main branches and smaller side branches growing up and out to form the foliage pads.
Whether to keep any or all of the current branches depends what they look like. Unfortunately, ground grown Japanese maple branches tend to be coarse with long, bare sections and awkward bends. Fingers crossed this one has enough to work with.

Downsize the pot when you are ready to begin developing finer ramification and that will depend what you find when the leaves are gone.
I would certainly repot this Spring - just to check what you are dealing with. Maybe start the reduction process and encourage better surface root ramification if required.
 
Far better to wait until the leaves are gone so you can see the structure clearly.
I suspect your example tree is a Ficus but Japanese maples have a similar growth pattern and style with ascending main branches and smaller side branches growing up and out to form the foliage pads.
Whether to keep any or all of the current branches depends what they look like. Unfortunately, ground grown Japanese maple branches tend to be coarse with long, bare sections and awkward bends. Fingers crossed this one has enough to work with.

Downsize the pot when you are ready to begin developing finer ramification and that will depend what you find when the leaves are gone.
I would certainly repot this Spring - just to check what you are dealing with. Maybe start the reduction process and encourage better surface root ramification if required.
Thank you master shibui 🙏🏼, so wait for leaf drop to assess structure, if bad then make structural cuts and if it’s good then downsize pot. Also repot in spring to assess roots and work on nebari. Correct? If the main ascending branches are good then what size pot should I aim for? And also what exactly should I be looking for to decide whether to cut or keep them?
 
wait for leaf drop to assess structure, if bad then make structural cuts and if it’s good then downsize pot. Also repot in spring to assess roots and work on nebari. Correct?
Looks good but need to see the tree before setting concrete goals.
If the main ascending branches are good then what size pot should I aim for?
Hard to say given we can't tell how big the current pot is other than 'huge'
what exactly should I be looking for to decide whether to cut or keep them?
Direction - they need to grow up and out. Also look good together - similar bends, direction, etc.
Taper - gradual taper from base to tip if possible or somewhere to chop to a side branch to create taper. No inverse taper if possible.
Internode length - new shoots (future sub branches) can only grow from nodes. Long internodes severely limit where sub-branches can grow, though grafting is possible if everything else is OK.
 
Looks good but need to see the tree before setting concrete goals.

Hard to say given we can't tell how big the current pot is other than 'huge'

Direction - they need to grow up and out. Also look good together - similar bends, direction, etc.
Taper - gradual taper from base to tip if possible or somewhere to chop to a side branch to create taper. No inverse taper if possible.
Internode length - new shoots (future sub branches) can only grow from nodes. Long internodes severely limit where sub-branches can grow, though grafting is possible if everything else is OK.
Got it! Praying for decent branching in the fall. Pot seems to be 15gal i’m guessing, i’ll double check in the morning. Thank you!
 
Other US growers may know but, 15 gal means nothing to me. We usually work on diameter across the top of the pot.
I’ll grab some measurements in the morning
 
Other US growers may know but, 15 gal means nothing to me. We usually work on diameter across the top of the pot.
It’s about 12 inches across the top and 10-11 inches tall, think it’s a 5gal.
 
Looks good but need to see the tree before setting concrete goals.

Hard to say given we can't tell how big the current pot is other than 'huge'

Direction - they need to grow up and out. Also look good together - similar bends, direction, etc.
Taper - gradual taper from base to tip if possible or somewhere to chop to a side branch to create taper. No inverse taper if possible.
Internode length - new shoots (future sub branches) can only grow from nodes. Long internodes severely limit where sub-branches can grow, though grafting is possible if everything else is OK.
So.. in general, the idea is to move the main branches of deciduous trees upward, and the main branches of evergreens downward... or is it more species related than that? ...or not even that...
 
@drip - good plans above.

Myself I would do little or nothing this year, repot in spring. Let it recover and begin serious pruning next year end of summer. Except get rid of really ugly branches right away. I do have the luxury of having enough projects that letting something grow a year or two on the bench is easy for me.
 
@drip - good plans above.

Myself I would do little or nothing this year, repot in spring. Let it recover and begin serious pruning next year end of summer. Except get rid of really ugly branches right away. I do have the luxury of having enough projects that letting something grow a year or two on the bench is easy for me.
Ok got it, just gonna let it do its thing for now. I’ll prob just stick with a repot later and cut anything really bad off like you said. Just started bonsai this year, so all my stuff is a lot younger lol. Got some of my favorite trees thickening out for the next 5-10 years lol. I think you’re near me, any recommendations on cool species that can easily tolerate our zone?
 
So.. in general, the idea is to move the main branches of deciduous trees upward, and the main branches of evergreens downward... or is it more species related than that? ...or not even that...
Deciduous up and conifer down is generally good IMHO but there's always exceptions
Observe older trees as you travel to try to spot trends in how species grow. Each species seems to generally have it's own signature shape though there's always a few exceptions, depending on local conditions.
Some of my generalisations from looking at older trees and images of older trees:
Oaks tend to have branches with undulations, up and down. Older oak branches tend to arch slightly up then out and down.
Ficus branches also up, out and then arching downward.
Cedrus and Bald cypress mature to flat top shapes.
Japanese maples - several sub trunks grow up then outward so the tips form the branch planes.
Olives - often dead wood or hollow trunks. Branches mostly upward.
 
Ok got it, just gonna let it do its thing for now. I’ll prob just stick with a repot later and cut anything really bad off like you said. Just started bonsai this year, so all my stuff is a lot younger lol. Got some of my favorite trees thickening out for the next 5-10 years lol. I think you’re near me, any recommendations on cool species that can easily tolerate our zone?

Hornbeams - Carpinus caroliniana is excellent, but a little touchy about dehydration, it will not tolerate drying out. Part shade suites it well. Ostrya virginiana, the hop flowered hornbeam is a species seldom seen for bonsai, which I think is excellent. Hop flowered hornbeam tolerates a more sun, and dryer conditions than Carpinus caroliniana. However both hornbeams are trees of moist deciduous forests, getting too dry will be fatal. Both are hardy into zone 5a or 4b, fully hardy in the greater Chicago area.

Elms, any and all elm species are good bonsai. Locally the American elm used to be common, but Dutch elm disease has wiped most of them out. If you find young trees, they are worth a try as the DED mainly affects trees taller than 15 feet. Our trees in pots are not overly susceptible. Chinese elm, the cultivars common in bonsai cultivation are all hardy through zone 5, and are ecellent. I am fond of the Ulmus chinensis cultivar 'Seijiu' for bonsai.

Siberian elm, Ulmus pumilia, the invasive species that seems to be everywhere is actually pretty good for bonsai. It must have full sun or it will drop branches on the shaded side of the tree. But leaves reduce well, branches ramify well, bark is rugged and fissured, overall a good elm.

Slippery elm, Ulmus rubra is native to the area, also rock elm, Ulmus thomasii though rock elm is more common in Wisconsin, both are excellent. Slippery elm is somewhat shade tolerant, all other elms prefer full sun. I wish rock elm, Ulmus thomasii was easier for me to find, I have not worked with it, just admired trees in southwestern Wisconsin, its common in the driftless areas, west of Madison.

Pines are a cult in themselves. For starters try mugo, Pinus mugo and Scots pine, Pinus sylvestris as locally very winter hardy with no tricks to learn. I had nice success with a Jack Pine, Pinus banksiana, for a number of years. It was a grafted short needled variety that was developing nicely. I sold it a while back. Notice I have not recommended either of the Japanese pines. This is because the Japanese black pine is not quite winter hardy here, it will need winter protection if it is growing in a container. And Japanese white pine, while technically hardy through zone 4, seedlings are often poorly colored with many bad traits, and nice select cultivars their hardiness depends entirely on the root stock chosen. Both Japanese pines can be grown here, but need a cult like attention to details and winter protection, a cold frame or greenhouse or other protection.

Thuja occidentalis, white cedar or arborvitae is excellent, and fully hardy. There are many cultivars, and since they do root from cuttings, you are not dealing with grafts as you would be with pine cultivars. Also try Hinoki cypress, Chamaecyparis obtusa, Hinoki are a little more tender, the two species otherwise require nearly identical care.

We are at the northern limit for Japanese maples, they need to be covered or protected in winter here. The native red maple Acer rubra is pretty good for medium to larger bonsai and fully hardy. Sugar maples and Norway maples have leaves that are just too big, and don't respond well to container growing. Silver maples lack the key charm of most maples, autumn color, so avoid silver maples. Red maple is the best locally native maple. On west coast is the vine maple, but it is not quite winter hardy here.

Genus Malus, any of the apples, crab apples, all make good bonsai, nearly all types are hardy through zone 5. Related, I liked Amelanchier, the serviceberry, except serviceberry has been slow to "trunk up", it tends to stay a thin trunked tree. Apples, pears, cherries, peaches and plums all make decent bonsai, most of the culinary fruits are hardy through zone 5. You can start them from seed harvested from fruit for eating or purchase grafted cultivars through nurseries. Seedlings grow fast, though apples may take upwards of 2 decades to start blooming regularly from seed. Most culinary fruit trees respond well to air layering, so you can purchase a named grafted variety and air layer off a branch or two to make smaller or mid size bonsai with guaranteed fruiting characteristics.

Juniper chinensis cultivars are a must in any bonsai collection. 'Shimpaku', 'Itoigawa' and 'Kishu' are the best cultivars for bonsai. Disease free, and essentially botanical silly putty, can take any shape you want. Avoid the Juniperus virginiana, eastern red cedar, as it is disease prone (cedar-apple rust) and it is difficult to get foliage to tighten up to nice foliage pads. There are a few good ERC bonsai, but they are rare.

Actually check out what is sold at your local landscape nurseries, most of those species are good for bonsai in one way or another. A walk in the woods is also a good "species list" for trees hardy locally. Look for trees with smaller leaves and a feature of interest, like fall color, or fruit or flowers. Avoid species with big leaves like grapes, etc.

As you get more confident in your horticulture skills, try American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana. It is fully winter hardy here, I love the fruits, though to some they are an acquired taste. They are touchy about repotting, many loose their persimmons shortly after repotting, so they are not a beginner tree. But if you have access to seed, or trees, they are worth a try.
 
Hornbeams - Carpinus caroliniana is excellent, but a little touchy about dehydration, it will not tolerate drying out. Part shade suites it well. Ostrya virginiana, the hop flowered hornbeam is a species seldom seen for bonsai, which I think is excellent. Hop flowered hornbeam tolerates a more sun, and dryer conditions than Carpinus caroliniana. However both hornbeams are trees of moist deciduous forests, getting too dry will be fatal. Both are hardy into zone 5a or 4b, fully hardy in the greater Chicago area.

Elms, any and all elm species are good bonsai. Locally the American elm used to be common, but Dutch elm disease has wiped most of them out. If you find young trees, they are worth a try as the DED mainly affects trees taller than 15 feet. Our trees in pots are not overly susceptible. Chinese elm, the cultivars common in bonsai cultivation are all hardy through zone 5, and are ecellent. I am fond of the Ulmus chinensis cultivar 'Seijiu' for bonsai.

Siberian elm, Ulmus pumilia, the invasive species that seems to be everywhere is actually pretty good for bonsai. It must have full sun or it will drop branches on the shaded side of the tree. But leaves reduce well, branches ramify well, bark is rugged and fissured, overall a good elm.

Slippery elm, Ulmus rubra is native to the area, also rock elm, Ulmus thomasii though rock elm is more common in Wisconsin, both are excellent. Slippery elm is somewhat shade tolerant, all other elms prefer full sun. I wish rock elm, Ulmus thomasii was easier for me to find, I have not worked with it, just admired trees in southwestern Wisconsin, its common in the driftless areas, west of Madison.

Pines are a cult in themselves. For starters try mugo, Pinus mugo and Scots pine, Pinus sylvestris as locally very winter hardy with no tricks to learn. I had nice success with a Jack Pine, Pinus banksiana, for a number of years. It was a grafted short needled variety that was developing nicely. I sold it a while back. Notice I have not recommended either of the Japanese pines. This is because the Japanese black pine is not quite winter hardy here, it will need winter protection if it is growing in a container. And Japanese white pine, while technically hardy through zone 4, seedlings are often poorly colored with many bad traits, and nice select cultivars their hardiness depends entirely on the root stock chosen. Both Japanese pines can be grown here, but need a cult like attention to details and winter protection, a cold frame or greenhouse or other protection.

Thuja occidentalis, white cedar or arborvitae is excellent, and fully hardy. There are many cultivars, and since they do root from cuttings, you are not dealing with grafts as you would be with pine cultivars. Also try Hinoki cypress, Chamaecyparis obtusa, Hinoki are a little more tender, the two species otherwise require nearly identical care.

We are at the northern limit for Japanese maples, they need to be covered or protected in winter here. The native red maple Acer rubra is pretty good for medium to larger bonsai and fully hardy. Sugar maples and Norway maples have leaves that are just too big, and don't respond well to container growing. Silver maples lack the key charm of most maples, autumn color, so avoid silver maples. Red maple is the best locally native maple. On west coast is the vine maple, but it is not quite winter hardy here.

Genus Malus, any of the apples, crab apples, all make good bonsai, nearly all types are hardy through zone 5. Related, I liked Amelanchier, the serviceberry, except serviceberry has been slow to "trunk up", it tends to stay a thin trunked tree. Apples, pears, cherries, peaches and plums all make decent bonsai, most of the culinary fruits are hardy through zone 5. You can start them from seed harvested from fruit for eating or purchase grafted cultivars through nurseries. Seedlings grow fast, though apples may take upwards of 2 decades to start blooming regularly from seed. Most culinary fruit trees respond well to air layering, so you can purchase a named grafted variety and air layer off a branch or two to make smaller or mid size bonsai with guaranteed fruiting characteristics.

Juniper chinensis cultivars are a must in any bonsai collection. 'Shimpaku', 'Itoigawa' and 'Kishu' are the best cultivars for bonsai. Disease free, and essentially botanical silly putty, can take any shape you want. Avoid the Juniperus virginiana, eastern red cedar, as it is disease prone (cedar-apple rust) and it is difficult to get foliage to tighten up to nice foliage pads. There are a few good ERC bonsai, but they are rare.

Actually check out what is sold at your local landscape nurseries, most of those species are good for bonsai in one way or another. A walk in the woods is also a good "species list" for trees hardy locally. Look for trees with smaller leaves and a feature of interest, like fall color, or fruit or flowers. Avoid species with big leaves like grapes, etc.

As you get more confident in your horticulture skills, try American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana. It is fully winter hardy here, I love the fruits, though to some they are an acquired taste. They are touchy about repotting, many loose their persimmons shortly after repotting, so they are not a beginner tree. But if you have access to seed, or trees, they are worth a try.
Thanks for the write up! Appreciate it, definitely bulked up my list. Right now I have an amur maple, japanese maples, korean hornbeam, crabapple, ficus microcarpa, and dwarf jades. Itoigawa juniper and some sort of pine are definitely on my radar next. They are a little hard to source for mid range trees. I like to get more unique cultivars but most seem to be fairly slow growers. Thank you!
 
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