Haydite. your take

[penumbra]

I am looking at some haydite. I love the look of it, color and such, and I am probably going to give it a try. Not looking to evoke soil wars, but I am curious about others experiences with it.
Thank you.

 

[Underdog]

I have some. A local Bonsai Pro uses it almost exclusively. If we are talking about the same stuff I was calling expanded shale? I bought a couple trees from him that were in 100%. Healthy trees... shrug. I put a K Hornbeam I bought in a pond basket with only that for a year or two. (the one I put in your pot)

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I use a version produced here in NC called Permatill or Voleblock. It is a heat expanded slate and is sold mainly as a soil amendment or to prevent voles from eating bulbs. I found out about it from the NC arboretum who use it in their bonsai mix. I use it in place of lave along with pumice and pine bark, and have also tried it with akadama. It seems to have low water retention and CEC comparable or less than lava. So it basically is a filler that is lighter than granite grit but does retain about 15% water. I suspect that if you can get pumice cheap enough just use it and akadama or pine bark and forget the filler and may go that way in the future. I also have seen more rec’s of using perlite instead of pumice with a layer of lava or haydite on top just to keep it from blowing away or washing off, and to cover up the white surface.

 

[JudyB]

I used it on a couple deciduous for a couple years, they didn't do as well developing roots and were generally always thirsty. I don't know how they would work for conifers, but I didn't like it for D trees.

 

[19Mateo83]

I’m giving the permatill a try this year. I added it into my mix, it seems to help retain moisture. It’s a lot cheaper than lava. Bella bonsai here in Charlotte uses it as a major component in his mix also.

 

[markyscott]

I used it for several years as a substitute for lava rock. Qualitatively, root development was poor and I haven’t used it for years.

S

 

[penumbra]

Thank you everyone for a diverse assortment of answers. I suppose like most things bonsai, it depends.

 

[James W.]

I have used it as a replacement for lava rock. It does not hold much moisture.

 

[rockm]

I've used Haydite (Permatill---stalite) for years in my mixes. The already prepared soil mix I use also contain it. It both drains and holds water well. Decidous trees have done very well in it.

 

[Maiden69]

I haven't tried haydite, but I started using Bonsai Block last year and so far nothing negative to report. The website states it is a close alternative to black lava. The pic on the website looks similar to haydite but with a rounder more uniform profile.

What is BonsaiBlock? – Bonsai Jack ©

www.bonsaijack.com

 

[Jester217300]

I've used it for years but I am removing it from my mix and moving away from it because of the small particle size.

I've found it works best in pond baskets. The slightly smaller particle size helps retain the appropriate amount of moisture. I've specifically had very good success with conifers in pond baskets full of haydite.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I've used Permatil/Vole Bloc (made by the Stalite Corporation) for three years. I think it is an "ok" replacement for black lava in my mixes, but I find the piece size (when sold as retail Permatil bags) a little large. I contacted the supplier, and they have a washed and screened CA#9 product which is 1/8"+/- available in 40lb bags or bulk polybags. If you can swing a one pallet minimum retail order (50 bags), you can pick up a pallet from their facility in Wadesboro, NC, for $375 plus tax (approx $8 per bag). I'm planning on picking up a pallet and testing it for bonsai use. (Note they also sell it by the truck or bulk 1 cu foot polybag if you own a big truck).

 

[rockm]

FWIW, permatill is NOT really haydite. Permatill is expanded slate, while haydite is expanded shale. Both show up in bonsai mixes. Permatill claims to hold less water than haydite (which is a plus in construction applications), but I'm not real sure that's the case. Both work in soil mixes similarly if you can source them in small sizes.

Haydite

C-Grade Haydite - Musselman Landscaping | Indianapolis Mulch Delivery

This course, lightweight 3/4″ x No.4 size aggregate has natural earth toned colors that resemble the look of hardwood bark. Haydite makes an excellent geotechnical fill or ground cover mulch that will not fade, rot or easily blow away. One yard covers approximately 155 sq. ft. @ 2” deep. 1,100...

musselmanlandscape.com

Stalite vs haydite clay/shale

Production — Stalite

www.stalite.com

plant nursery explanation:

Expanded Shale - Nature's Way Resources

Expanded shale may be produced from several sources, clay, shale or slate and have several different names depending on what part of the country one lives in.

www.natureswayresources.com

 

[rockm]

I've used Permatil/Vole Bloc (made by the Stalite Corporation) for three years. I think it is an "ok" replacement for black lava in my mixes, but I find the piece size (when sold as retail Permatil bags) a little large. I contacted the supplier, and they have a washed and screened CA#9 product which is 1/8"+/- available in 40lb bags or bulk polybags. If you can swing a one pallet minimum retail order (50 bags), you can pick up a pallet from their facility in Wadesboro, NC, for $375 plus tax (approx $8 per bag). I'm planning on picking up a pallet and testing it for bonsai use. (Note they also sell it by the truck or bulk 1 cu foot polybag if you own a big truck).

View attachment 477995

Stalite (permatill) does tend to have larger grade particles in the bags I've seen available at stores. I've found bags of VoleBloc bought at retail suppliers for the purpose of controlling voles, too large to use in bonsai soil.

 

[Michael P]

Here "expanded shale" is sold as an amendment for our clay soils. I've used it in potting and bonsai mixes for years. It is porous and does hold some water, but is otherwise inert (no cation exchange capacity). I am moving away from it for bonsai because the particle size is a little larger than I like and it dries out too fast in the summer here. I do still use it for succulents and they really like it.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I'm going to add to this thread (versus create a new one). For reference:

Stalite/Permatil/Vole Bloc = expanded slate product, manufactured by the Stalite Corporation, Salisbury, North Carolina
Buildex/Haydite = expanded shale product, manufactured by Buildex, Inc, Ottawa, Kansas
Turface = fired clay product, manufactured by Profile Products, LLC, Buffalo Grove, Illinois

Slate vs. Clay and Shale (from Stalite manufacturer site)
Several types of raw material can be expanded in a rotary kiln to produce structural lightweight aggregates. These materials can be classified as clays, shales and slates. The primary difference in these three classifications of materials is their strength, density and absorption. Clays and shales are naturally softer, and less dense than slate. After processing in a rotary kiln, clays and shales have 24-hour absorptions ranging between 15% and 30% (compared to 6% for STALITE). During mixing or pumping concrete, clay and shale absorptions can be as high as 50% (compared to 9% for STALITE). Due to the higher material strength of STALITE slate aggregate, higher strength concretes can be achieved with lower cement contents allowing for more economical concrete mixes.

Stalite/Permatil:
STALITE's strong end-use products begin with the production processing of our raw material slate. Slate possesses the high strength and lasting durability necessary to create a superior lightweight aggregate. Unlike shale or clay deposits formed from mineral or organic sediments, the slate used in STALITE was formed from volcanic ash. This volcanic ejecta, free of impurities which were burned away at very high temperatures, was deposited in a wet environment and compressed under extreme pressures for millions of years. The resulting material is an extraordinary slate deposit whose unique properties contribute to making STALITE the very finest high performance lightweight aggregate in the world. In the foothills of NC, east of Charlotte, NC is the only known source of slate that is being used as a raw material for rotary kiln expanded slate lightweight aggregate
Bulk density: 57 lb/cubic foot (3/32" - 3/16" screened product)

Buildex/Haydite:
Buildex is produced by quarrying shale and introducing it into a rotary kiln, where it is heated in about one hour to 2000 degrees fahrenheit. During the process the shale expands, becoming less dense, and is vitrified (hardened), just as clay is vitrified into pottery. All organic compounds are burned off in the process. The resulting Buildex particles contain numerous microscopic, non-connected air voids, making the product lightweight, strong, and durable. Since it is processed at high temperatures, Buildex is fire resistant and thermally stable.
Buildex aggregate particles leaving the kiln are angular in shape, with particle size from 2 inches (50 mm) down to fines. They are then screened into production sizes, and some larger fractions are crushed into finer fractions. The fractions smaller than 1/4 inch contain some of the angular particles from the crushing process.
Bulk density: 44 lb/cubic foot (1/4" - 1/8" screened product)

Turface:
Is a calcined, non-swelling illite clay with 60% minimum amorphous silica. Material is processed in a rotary kiln operation at temperatures not less than 1300 degrees Fahrenheit. Product is then screened and de-dusted.
Bulk density: 38 +- 2lb/cubic foot (Turface Quick Dry product)

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I use Permatil/Stalite in my mix in place of lava. Arthur Joura also uses it in his mix at the Asheville Arboretum. He orders it in truck loads so can get it sifted to a smaller size fraction. They used to offer it bagged in small sizes by special order at the mill but it was too expensive to ship so I just sift mine myself. I haven’t checked with them in about 5 years so they may not offer that any longer in small batches.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I use Permatil/Stalite in my mix in place of lava. Arthur Joura also uses it in his mix at the Asheville Arboretum. He orders it in truck loads so can get it sifted to a smaller size fraction. They used to offer it bagged in small sizes by special order at the mill but it was too expensive to ship so I just sift mine myself. I haven’t checked with them in about 5 years so they may not offer that any longer in small batches.

Minimum order is a pallet, however a 40lb bag of aggregate for $8 is a pretty good deal if it works for your mix needs. You just need to find people to go in with you on a 50 bag pallet.

 

[19Mateo83]

Minimum order is a pallet, however a 40lb bag of aggregate for $8 is a pretty good deal if it works for your mix needs. You just need to find people to go in with you on a 50 bag pallet.

Atlantic landscape supply on hwy 16 used to be the local distributor of by the bag and bulk here in charlotte. Sadly, they closed, the owner retired.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Minimum order is a pallet, however a 40lb bag of aggregate for $8 is a pretty good deal if it works for your mix needs. You just need to find people to go in with you on a 50 bag pallet.

Last time I talked with them they would sell you individual bags sifted to under 1/4” but as I said that was at least 5 years ago. So is the 50 bag pallet sifted to the smaller fraction or is it the standard 3/8” size? Maybe we could buy a pallet and distribute it at the December show.