Help needed with two saplings

[Dkdhej]

@Maheshbiyer, do you know the species name of your baobab? Where did you get it from?

One of the first things baobabs invest in is a storage root. It's critical for them be able to store enough water to survive their first drought. Mine have all been grown from seed. By the time the cotyledons have opened, the tap root is already quite long. Here is a picture of one of mine after ~3 months growth:

View attachment 335638

You can see that already the tap root is quite bulbous.

Do you happen to take a picture of the roots? There should be an existing tap root or evidence that one has been cut. It's quite possible the one on yours has been cut or has been constrained to a small container. Either way, it should be obvious. There should either be a wound where the root was cut or the root will be twisted and bulbous because it was constrained and had nowhere to go.

If there isn't some evidence of a storage root, I'd question whether it is a true adansonia.

As far as what to do with it...that partly depends on if it is a true adansonia or not. If it's not a true adansonia, my experience with them is not likely to help you!

Assuming it IS an adansonia, I don't like to tell people what to do. It's your tree...not mine What I can do is tell you what I have done with mine, explain why, and show the results...which is what my previous post was attempting to do.

At the risk of repeating:

My adansonia digitata (what yours is most likely to be if it is an adansonia) is currently growing in a 3 gallon grow bag. I use these

Amazon.com : vivosun 3 gallon grow bags

I can usually get them for under $3 per bag and they last me 5 years or more. Many people on this site will use plastic colanders. I prefer the bags myself, but the principal is the same: when the roots hit the air boundary, they don't turn and continue to grow like they would in a traditional pot. Instead, the tips naturally dry up and die. The root then branches further back. Over time this leads to lots of fine "feeder" roots that help the tree absorb water and nutrients. The bags aren't as effective as colanders. I do get some fine roots that do weave into the bag itself if I keep the soil too wet. But it's plenty effective for my use and they last me longer.

I have my doubts that that is necessary with adansonia and the way they grow roots, but it doesn't hurt. At the very least, I can water them constantly and the porous bag allows the soil to drain immediately. The bags dry out enough during the day to keep root rot from being an issue. I water my babs every day...sometimes twice a day...during their growing season without worry about rot issues. Part of that is that the bags dry out quicker than posts. Part of that is the soil I use doesn't get muddy.

The "soil" I have mine in I buy at a local auto parts store. It's known in the US as NAPA 8822. It's used to soak up oil spills of all things

What it really is is diatomaceous earth:

Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are many uses for DE. Finely powedered DE is sometimes used as a food additive. Do not use the food grade stuff! It's too fine. Powedered DE is also used as an insect/slug barrier. Sometimes even as an insecticide. The fine powder is very sharp and hard. It can get between the segments of insects and cause wounds that will dry the insect out and kill it. Ants won't cross it. Slugs won't either. The power is also used as a soil additive in the garden for various reasons beyond insect prevention. Again, do not use the powered stuff!

What I use comes in 1-2mm pebbles. I believe DE is sold in some European countries as kitty litter. I use it because it is cheap and easy to source here. It lasts many years...I often wash and reuse it after a repot. It's not organic so I don't tend to get fungus gnat infestations when I move things inside for the winter. The downside is there are no usable nutrients...I do need to fertilize regularly.

I started most of my adansonia seedlings in coconut coif. They actually grew in coconut coif for most of their first year. They did seem to grow much faster in the coif but the coif was much harder to control the moisture of. It breaks down pretty fast and sometimes felt muddy and took longer than I would like to dry out. I started to worry about root rot issues after just 6 months in coif so I moved them to DE instead. I wasn't terribly happy with the rate of growth this season in the DE compared to last where most of the growth was in the early part of the season when they were in coconut coif. I may make some adjustments next season towards something a little more moisture retaining.

The results are as pictured:

View attachment 335651View attachment 335650View attachment 335649

All 3 are adansonia digitata. All 3 trees are 2 years from seed. They are just over 1m tall. Trunks at the base are just shy of 3cm. The 2 on the right were topped at the end of last season to try and force some back budding...which they did do.

So again, that's what I have done. You are in a much different climate than mine. My adansonia cannot survive outside year round here. We'll be dropping below 0C at night any day now. Temps as low as -20C are not out of the question here. Even in the summer, when our temps can get to above 35C, our humidity is often 80%. All I can do is try things and see what works for me.

Lots of words...sorry! But hopefully I've explained the reasoning behind my decisions enough that you can adjust what I've done to your climate.

Hi, LittleDingus.
Thanks a lot for sharing, this is really useful information.
I was wondering what is the best time for cutting the tuber. Dormancy?

 

[LittleDingus]

Hi, LittleDingus.
Thanks a lot for sharing, this is really useful information.
I was wondering what is the best time for cutting the tuber. Dormancy?

My plan is always during dormancy because I tend to keep them well watered during the growing season. The first winter I chopped the bottom 3rd of the tuberous tap root off. I'm curious to see what they did about that when they go dormant and I lift them this winter. I intend to chop them again if they need it in order to not have root length issues in the grow bags they are in now.

I understand that some people lift the tuber to create a thicker "trunk" rather than chop the bottom. I currently have 3 digitata...I might give that a try with one to see what the difference turns out to be.

I plan to document whatever I do with mine moving forward on this thread:

Gotta grow them all: baobab edition

Rather than continue to hijack another's thread, I'm going to start my own for my personal baobab collection. adansonia grandidieri What looks like a double trunk on the right is actually poor pot placement :( There are 3 trees in this grow bag. The two on the right are roughly the same...

www.bonsainut.com

I should probably add an update now that I've moved them in for the winter. I'll definitely add an update once they go fully dormant. I have some changes I want to make to their soil then to try and get better growth next season if I can.

I also found this thread on baobabs very interesting:

check my baobabs

hi guys,here are some of my baobabs: our growing season is coming to an end just as your spring is starting.The big one with the top view is the one i showed last year + is starting to ramify nicely.The second big one is radically 1 sided + maybe in the next 10 years i'll get branches to grow...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[LittleDingus]

Thank you for that information @LittleDingus. My Baobab is drooping and some leaves have shriveled. I don't know what is wrong. What do you suggest I do? I'm terribly worried. The soil does have water. I have attached pics. It is about to get cold here and I keep the Baobab inside at night and outside in the sun during day.

RegardsView attachment 335913View attachment 335914

The big leaf in front on the first picture: does it have white spots? Or is that the photo quality?

If the leaves have white spots and are curling, I'd suspect spider mites. You might be able to see the little guys under the leaves...magnification helps. Sometimes their webs/threads are easier to see.

I had spider mites on mine indoors last winter. The leaves looked white poke-a-dotted...sorry no pictures I washed the leaves and used neem oil and sometimes alchohol on them until they finally lost all their leaves. I couldn't get rid of them I wouldn't use miticide on mine because the stuff I had smells terrible and the plants were in the house.

Once they lost all their leaves, I unpotted the plants and threw them in a box in a cool place. That was my big mistake: I didn't watch them closely enough and a couple dried out too much and never woke up. For the ones that did wake up...they didn't have mites anymore

I've never had a mite problem on any of my plants outdoors. My banana tree and the baby babs were mite magnets when indoors I've added a little more air movement and open space around them this winter hoping the problem doesn't return.

Anyway, that's my only experience with "wilting" babs. Hopefully that's not what you have! But, if you do, and the temps are falling, let the tree go dormant. The mite problem should resolve itself Be mindful of your other trees though...mites spread!

 

[LittleDingus]

I had spider mites on mine indoors last winter. The leaves looked white poke-a-dotted...sorry no pictures

Dammit! NOW I have pictures to share



It's amazing how fast these pest pop up once indoors! I didn't look at my babs at all yesterday...I was too busy setting up the winter space in my garage for my more temperature sensitive oaks. The day before, the fony was showing yellow/dried leaves that I thought was it starting to go to sleep...no webs. I did look it over well at that time. That first picture is of the fony from today. Now the webs are clear and there are a lot of them The tiny white dots in the web are adult spider mites. At this size, you can watch them scuttle around pretty easily.

The second picture is also from today. It's from my madagascarensis. I can't find webs on that tree yet, but those white speckles are what I was asking about on @Maheshbiyer's tree. His picture looks similar to that to me. If it is...I'd bet money it's spider mites and in a day or two there will be webs everywhere!

The rest of my plants in that room seem clean at the moment.

Here's another of my fony that I didn't find until after I sprayed it with soapy water.



Neem oil and insecticidal soap never eliminated the ones I had last winter...they did knock them down a bit. I'm going to try and be more diligent and go the cheaper route this winter. I made up a mixture of dish soap in warm water for my spray bottle. Working from home, I can spray them more often so hopefully I can get on top of them.

I'm not at all worried what they will do to the babs. Worst case, the babs defoliate (or I defoliate them!) and go into winter dormancy. I don't think the mites can get through the bark. I do have a lot of tropicals at the moment, though. It might be a long winter if I'm fighting mites already

 

[Maheshbiyer]

T

The big leaf in front on the first picture: does it have white spots? Or is that the photo quality?

If the leaves have white spots and are curling, I'd suspect spider mites. You might be able to see the little guys under the leaves...magnification helps. Sometimes their webs/threads are easier to see.

I had spider mites on mine indoors last winter. The leaves looked white poke-a-dotted...sorry no pictures I washed the leaves and used neem oil and sometimes alchohol on them until they finally lost all their leaves. I couldn't get rid of them I wouldn't use miticide on mine because the stuff I had smells terrible and the plants were in the house.

Once they lost all their leaves, I unpotted the plants and threw them in a box in a cool place. That was my big mistake: I didn't watch them closely enough and a couple dried out too much and never woke up. For the ones that did wake up...they didn't have mites anymore

I've never had a mite problem on any of my plants outdoors. My banana tree and the baby babs were mite magnets when indoors I've added a little more air movement and open space around them this winter hoping the problem doesn't return.

Anyway, that's my only experience with "wilting" babs. Hopefully that's not what you have! But, if you do, and the temps are falling, let the tree go dormant. The mite problem should resolve itself Be mindful of your other trees though...mites spread!

Thank you. I tried looking for mites on the plant. Couldn't find any. What else could be wrong?

 

[Maheshbiyer]

Dammit! NOW I have pictures to share

View attachment 335981View attachment 335982

It's amazing how fast these pest pop up once indoors! I didn't look at my babs at all yesterday...I was too busy setting up the winter space in my garage for my more temperature sensitive oaks. The day before, the fony was showing yellow/dried leaves that I thought was it starting to go to sleep...no webs. I did look it over well at that time. That first picture is of the fony from today. Now the webs are clear and there are a lot of them The tiny white dots in the web are adult spider mites. At this size, you can watch them scuttle around pretty easily.

The second picture is also from today. It's from my madagascarensis. I can't find webs on that tree yet, but those white speckles are what I was asking about on @Maheshbiyer's tree. His picture looks similar to that to me. If it is...I'd bet money it's spider mites and in a day or two there will be webs everywhere!

The rest of my plants in that room seem clean at the moment.

Here's another of my fony that I didn't find until after I sprayed it with soapy water.

View attachment 335983

Neem oil and insecticidal soap never eliminated the ones I had last winter...they did knock them down a bit. I'm going to try and be more diligent and go the cheaper route this winter. I made up a mixture of dish soap in warm water for my spray bottle. Working from home, I can spray them more often so hopefully I can get on top of them.

I'm not at all worried what they will do to the babs. Worst case, the babs defoliate (or I defoliate them!) and go into winter dormancy. I don't think the mites can get through the bark. I do have a lot of tropicals at the moment, though. It might be a long winter if I'm fighting mites already

I'll too try the soap trick on tve the Baobab leaves.

 

[Dkdhej]

Dammit! NOW I have pictures to share

View attachment 335981View attachment 335982

It's amazing how fast these pest pop up once indoors! I didn't look at my babs at all yesterday...I was too busy setting up the winter space in my garage for my more temperature sensitive oaks. The day before, the fony was showing yellow/dried leaves that I thought was it starting to go to sleep...no webs. I did look it over well at that time. That first picture is of the fony from today. Now the webs are clear and there are a lot of them The tiny white dots in the web are adult spider mites. At this size, you can watch them scuttle around pretty easily.

The second picture is also from today. It's from my madagascarensis. I can't find webs on that tree yet, but those white speckles are what I was asking about on @Maheshbiyer's tree. His picture looks similar to that to me. If it is...I'd bet money it's spider mites and in a day or two there will be webs everywhere!

The rest of my plants in that room seem clean at the moment.

Here's another of my fony that I didn't find until after I sprayed it with soapy water.

View attachment 335983

Neem oil and insecticidal soap never eliminated the ones I had last winter...they did knock them down a bit. I'm going to try and be more diligent and go the cheaper route this winter. I made up a mixture of dish soap in warm water for my spray bottle. Working from home, I can spray them more often so hopefully I can get on top of them.

I'm not at all worried what they will do to the babs. Worst case, the babs defoliate (or I defoliate them!) and go into winter dormancy. I don't think the mites muy can get through the bark. I do have a lot of tropicals at the moment, though. It might be a long winter if I'm fighting mites already

I have found the same on my baobabs!

No pests when they are outside but once they are moved inside the spider mites really kick in.

 

[LittleDingus]

T

Thank you. I tried looking for mites on the plant. Couldn't find any. What else could be wrong?

My only experience with your symptoms and babs is due to spider mites. They are microscopic much of the time. The webs are not always apparent. Usually by the time you see the webs, you've got a serious problem Polk-a-dot discoloration of the leaves is a pretty clear and early sign. That's why I was asking if your leaves look like mine as best as you can tell from my picture. Your picture looked similar to me but may just be resolution issues.

Leaf curl such as you report is also a very common symptom of spider mites.

I'd read up on mites and their lifecycle. If you have plants indoors, you're likely to encounter them at some point even if the current problem isn't due to them.

The dilute soapy water treatment isn't likely to hurt your plants whether you have mites or not. You may research the plant a bit though. The soap can strip oils from the leaves. I've never noticed issues on the babs but it may be a problem on some tropicals with more waxy leaves.

Other things that are good to do in general when plants are indoors that also hinder spider mites is to increase air flow around the plant. A small fan creating a breeze just strong enough to gently ruffle leaves is healthy for plants. Helps with fungus and stagnant air issues and stimulates some hormones in the plants. Raising the humidity can be a plus. I don't know how houses in India are heated, but much of the US is heated with furnaces that heat air and push the heated air throughout the house. This drives the humidity down inside. It doesn't help that winters here get cold enough that outdoor humidities plummit as well. It's hard for sub freezing air to hold much moisture!

At the end of the day, I don't think spider mites can take down your tree this late in the growing season. My young trees eventually went dormant and ended the problem We'll see what happens this season. It is a bit hard on the nerves waiting months to see if the tree will wake back up after an infestation though!