Hornbeam yamadori

Jan Olav

Sapling
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Location
West coast of Norway
USDA Zone
8
I went collecting some hornbeams today. It is strange how "small" everything seems until you get it home!:eek: These are european hornbeams (carpinus betulus). The tallest tree I got today is 1m with a nebari of 25-30 cm. When I got home I honked the horn of my car and my wife and kids came out and yelled "OH NO!!" :eek: After some explaining my wife actually helped me get the trees in the pots. Thats a good wife.:) I am looking forward to see the buds break all over these heavy trunks. And they where HEAVY. It kept me going for the entire day to get these potted up.
Any ideas anyone? I might do the chop a bit further down the trunk to get a good taper and still keep the trees under 2m:p
 

Attachments

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
9,000
Reaction score
16,225
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7B
(1) Cute kids :)

(2) You are going to want to do something to get taper into those trunks. The easiest would be as you suggest, to chop the trunks much lower down with an angled cut just above a branch that would become your new leader, and wait for a fair number of years.

However, you might want to try something that I myself have wanted to try but have not gotten around to yet. I have always wondered if you could chop a trunk straight across, reduce the inner wood so that it tapers like a cone (while leaving the bark untouched), and then make a few angled slices in the bark so that you could bind it to the new cone of inner wood. The objective would be to end up with a tapered section of trunk with almost no scar (or at least a scar that would be healed over much more quickly then a massive trunk chop). You'd have to be creative with tools and/or be able to cut your own large drill press bit to cut out the wood while avoiding the bark, but it might be worth a shot.
 

Jan Olav

Sapling
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Location
West coast of Norway
USDA Zone
8
Hi there and thank you. They are cute. :)
I think that I will chop one of the two lower down and try your method on the other. Very interesting, I have never heard of that metod anywhere.
I have the time to wait, I have loads of pines to work with, so these two can take the time they need to develop. I read this http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/peter_chan/ and figured that I might have a go at it.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
9,000
Reaction score
16,225
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7B
I think that I will chop one of the two lower down and try your method on the other. Very interesting, I have never heard of that metod anywhere.
I have no idea whether it will work or not, but its worth a shot. Anything that might cut a year or two off taper development would be worth it.
 

irene_b

Omono
Messages
1,415
Reaction score
2
(1) Cute kids :)

(2) You are going to want to do something to get taper into those trunks. The easiest would be as you suggest, to chop the trunks much lower down with an angled cut just above a branch that would become your new leader, and wait for a fair number of years.

However, you might want to try something that I myself have wanted to try but have not gotten around to yet. I have always wondered if you could chop a trunk straight across, reduce the inner wood so that it tapers like a cone (while leaving the bark untouched), and then make a few angled slices in the bark so that you could bind it to the new cone of inner wood. The objective would be to end up with a tapered section of trunk with almost no scar (or at least a scar that would be healed over much more quickly then a massive trunk chop). You'd have to be creative with tools and/or be able to cut your own large drill press bit to cut out the wood while avoiding the bark, but it might be worth a shot.

Hmmm Sounds like what Behr did to a BC....Perhaps he will post how he did it.
Mom
 

Rick Moquin

Omono
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
8
Location
Dartmouth, NS Canada
USDA Zone
6a
My only question Jan, after reading Peter Chan's blog. Will the delta of climate render it feasible in Norway vice the UK? You might find the time lines required to achieve similar results extended somewhat, which in itself is no biggie. I'm looking forward in seing this tree prosper, keep us posted.
 

Jan Olav

Sapling
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Location
West coast of Norway
USDA Zone
8
Hi Rick,
I live on the westcoast of Norway and we have more or less the same climate as Manchester. The new climate zone for my area is 8(a) us zones. It is actually one of the warmer areas in the country. :)
The coldest we had so far this year is -5C. Hornbeam is a common tree over here and they grow really well. I chopped the largest one even more, to the point where I want to start working on some taper. I am just going to leave these two buggers alone for a couple of years and fertilize well.
I will keep you posted. :)
 

Behr

Yamadori
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Kyle, Texas USA
Hmmm Sounds like what Behr did to a BC....Perhaps he will post how he did it.
Mom
"did to a BC", would be the operative here...Yes this is very similar to the method I have developed to achieve taper on the bald cypress species, and it works very well with that species...I have also had minor success with a few other species...I do not know of any other species that heals, forms callous as well, and is as flexible as the bald cypress, which are determining factors for the success of this method...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
12
Location
Ottawa, KS
USDA Zone
6
"did to a BC", would be the operative here...Yes this is very similar to the method I have developed to achieve taper on the bald cypress species, and it works very well with that species...I have also had minor success with a few other species...I do not know of any other species that heals, forms callous as well, and is as flexible as the bald cypress, which are determining factors for the success of this method...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
Behr! Good to see you posting again!
 

Jan Olav

Sapling
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
Location
West coast of Norway
USDA Zone
8
"did to a BC", would be the operative here...Yes this is very similar to the method I have developed to achieve taper on the bald cypress species, and it works very well with that species...I have also had minor success with a few other species...I do not know of any other species that heals, forms callous as well, and is as flexible as the bald cypress, which are determining factors for the success of this method...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
Do you have any pictures of your work? It would be interesting to try it out on one of the hornbeams.
 

Behr

Yamadori
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Kyle, Texas USA
Do you have any pictures of your work? It would be interesting to try it out on one of the hornbeams.
In fact I do have several photos of three different times I did the proceedure, however they are all on my computer which is in storage at this time and not accessable...When I manage to get a job, a home, and my own computer back, I will certainly share the method in the form of an article or a post...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 

fwhou

Seedling
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Wayne, Pa., USA
USDA Zone
6
Instant Taper

(1) Cute kids :)

(2) You are going to want to do something to get taper into those trunks. The easiest would be as you suggest, to chop the trunks much lower down with an angled cut just above a branch that would become your new leader, and wait for a fair number of years.

However, you might want to try something that I myself have wanted to try but have not gotten around to yet. I have always wondered if you could chop a trunk straight across, reduce the inner wood so that it tapers like a cone (while leaving the bark untouched), and then make a few angled slices in the bark so that you could bind it to the new cone of inner wood. The objective would be to end up with a tapered section of trunk with almost no scar (or at least a scar that would be healed over much more quickly then a massive trunk chop). You'd have to be creative with tools and/or be able to cut your own large drill press bit to cut out the wood while avoiding the bark, but it might be worth a shot.
I took a weekend series with Kathy Shaner about 10 years ago. One technique she discussed for quick taper is almost exactly what Nut is explaining. Do a horizontal trunk cut maybe 10-15cm up from the lowest branches.
Then make a deep "V" cut vertically down through the trunk. The last trick is to pull both sides of the V-cut trunk together and bind them so the cambium meets from each side.
You should have super taper in 2 years, plus the tree should respond to the trunk chop in the spring with many new buds on the remaining section of the trunk.
Flex / 4MAAT
 
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
2,451
Location
Belgium
I have always wondered if you could chop a trunk straight across, reduce the inner wood so that it tapers like a cone (while leaving the bark untouched), and then make a few angled slices in the bark so that you could bind it to the new cone of inner wood. The objective would be to end up with a tapered section of trunk with almost no scar (or at least a scar that would be healed over much more quickly then a massive trunk chop). You'd have to be creative with tools and/or be able to cut your own large drill press bit to cut out the wood while avoiding the bark, but it might be worth a shot.
interesting: doesn't the wood start to rot when you do that? I've always wondered if there wasn't a way to trick nature, I tought using scions, but this might work. I have some beeches to take care of.

Grts Dirk
 

Behr

Yamadori
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Kyle, Texas USA
About 2 years ago I shared these photos along with many others, and a description of my process with several people in the 'chat room' at BonsaiTalk...Thank you is due to member BrianBay9 for saving and forwarding these to me at this time...

These photos are of one execution of the quick taper method...I have photos of 3 different times I have used this, and each were a bit different in execution, although each time was the same basic concept...

The first photo shows the tree before I started...The top was air-layered and removed prior to these photos and the leader grew after separation…In the process of re-cutting the top for tapering [just below the chosen leader] I slipped and cut the leader far short of my intended point…

After cutting the top to the proper height, the trunk is drilled using spade bits…I prefer
to start with a bit about ¼ inch smaller than the diameter of the trunk drilling about 1 inch deep,
then in graduated smaller sizes [about ¼ inch smaller with each bit] as one drills deeper…The next Photo shows this from the top, and one can also see the two 'saw kerfs', the second being made 90 degrees from the first, effectively dividing the trunk into 4 reasonably equal parts...

Using an X-acto knife [the bald cypress wood is easy to cut] remove the portions between
the saw kerfs to form a point at the top…I usually cut these with a slight taper inward also to
allow the outer edges [the cambium] to touch better…With this species an exact fit is not
necessary because of the ability to form callous...The next photo shows the cuts and inward taper...

Using a piece of bald cypress wood [any type of wood will work] I then cut a tapered plug
with the wide part at the bottom of the drilled area, and tapering toward the top [sorry no photo of
the plug]…To fill the gaps between the plug and the sides of the hole I used QuickWood [a
polymer epoxy resin], coating the plug and bringing the sides in with a padded hose clamp to
press into the QuickWood as it hardened…The next two photos show the epoxy coated plug in place and ready to be glued...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 

Attachments

Behr

Yamadori
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Kyle, Texas USA
Day 2…After allowing this to dry overnight to help with the bonding of the glue, a thin coat
of ‘Gorilla Glue' was applied to the plug and padded hose clamps were placed to draw all 4
sections together while the glue set up…The glue was allowed to set for about 24 hours to
harden, and the first photo shows the 'tapered section' with hose clamps in place…

The next photo shows the tree after removal of the clamps…As you are aware if you have used gorilla glue it expands…I used my X-acto knife to remove some of the excess glue from the outside…No need to worry about removing all of it, by the time the tree is ready to show the bark will be replaced and the glue will be gone…

The last photo shows the growth of the tree in one season after the 'taper/chop'...At this time I again cut the tree and repeated the same process...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 

Attachments

Attila Soos

Omono
Messages
1,804
Reaction score
33
Location
Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
USDA Zone
9
The last photo shows the growth of the tree in one season after the 'taper/chop'...At this time I again cut the tree and repeated the same process...

Regards
Behr

:)
Mr. Behr,

Thanks so much for sharing this method. It looks like a great way to create taper without huge scars.


Attila
 

Graydon

Chumono
Messages
717
Reaction score
7
It's like one of those Guinness beer ads - Brilliant! Next time I tip a cold one Behr it'll be to you.
 

Attachments

Mooseman

Seedling
Messages
21
Reaction score
2
Location
Berkshire, England
USDA Zone
8
Behr, thanks for that photo sequence, that is a new technique to me, which I could see being very useful.

One question though. Your term "Gorilla glue" may not translate here in the UK. Is it synonymous with "Gorilla Snot", a term I have heard used here by mechanics to refer to either gasket cement or lock-tite thread cement, or is it, as I suspect, an entirely different thing. Does it have a brand name?

Thanks again for the insight into this technique.

Mooseman
 
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
2,451
Location
Belgium
nice! very nice! very very nice. thanks. Tis method creates opportunities. When was it performed? Early spring?

Thanks
Dirk
 

Rick Moquin

Omono
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
8
Location
Dartmouth, NS Canada
USDA Zone
6a
Behr, thanks for that photo sequence, that is a new technique to me, which I could see being very useful.

One question though. Your term "Gorilla glue" may not translate here in the UK. Is it synonymous with "Gorilla Snot", a term I have heard used here by mechanics to refer to either gasket cement or lock-tite thread cement, or is it, as I suspect, an entirely different thing. Does it have a brand name?

Thanks again for the insight into this technique.

Mooseman
Gorilla glue is a brand name for a wood glue. Any wood glue that is moisture activated will do as a substitute. As it expands is fills in gaps and is impervious to the elements. Gorilla glue has many applications outside of wood, but you get my drift. Google gorilla glue and see what ya come up with wrt the operating properties. the name is too long for me to pronounce.
 
Top Bottom