How does one "employ" a master stylist to help take your trees to the "next level".

[Owen Reich]

His rate is reasonable. You might try to reach him through Facebook...?

I’d suggest reaching out to anyone on your shortlist via email, and expect a week or so for a solid response.

Going to an area away from home requires a great deal of planning, and some pros don’t want to travel often or have people visit them unannounced.

Suggest scheduling a Skype or zoom consult with pro(s) of your choice. Pay for the short consult and discuss your goals and types of trees you want to work on. Pro 1 may be booked til next decade while Pro 2 could have a study group in your area and visits often for example.
Colin Lewis has a great two page document on his website or online somewhere called “Preparing for a Bonsai Pro Visit”
or something like that. Great info in a concise format.

 

[arjun]

After studying with Tyler and Boon, I would recommend either of them. Best place to contact them is on Facebook, both are very responsive.
I am also on the board of a bonsai society and I would recommend reaching out to other club members in your area. If you have 3-4 people in your study group, then not only it gets cheaper but one learns a lot more looking at different trees from a workshop setting.
Good luck!!

 

[leatherback]

one learns a lot more looking at different trees from a workshop setting

1000%

 

[River's Edge]

learns a lot more looking at different trees from a workshop setting.

One of the key benefits of training with a master in their location is the ability to study and work with the quality of trees present in their collections. The experience of viewing and handling these tree's in person is really the best way to truly appreciate what is possible and recognize the subtle differences in technique, style and outcome. Actually seeing that level of mastery raises awareness and possibilities for the student.
The first time you repot a truly healthy rootball in the appropriate substrate for that species is a definite memory!
You immediately have less time for silly arguments over getting by with sub standard approaches. Taking the time to painstakingly wire and arrange after thinning or pruning and tweaking each step of the way is revealing and rewarding, especially when you can step out to the garden and view the results if you keep improving.
Guided practice under the watchful eye of a master is aided by the real life examples present in the workshop and the masters collection.
Pot selection becomes so much easier to understand and apply when each student is sent out to the nursery to select three options for every tree you consider. There are hundreds to choose from.
The discussion of each option for the tree with pot and tree in front of everyone is very effective, with actual show quality trees and pots being used each time.
If one has the resources and the time studying with a master in their location is I believe the best option, second best is if the master can work with you on your trees and/or combine with a local study group. I believe the study group adds a greater variety of trees and scope of learning. And as pointed out by others can make the experience more cost effective!
Although I see the benefits to virtual presentations I do not think it will replace the hands on guided practice and actual experience of working with show quality trees.

 

[bwaynef]

One of the key benefits of training with a master in their location is the ability to study and work with the quality of trees present in their collections. The experience of viewing and handling these tree's in person is really the best way to truly appreciate what is possible and recognize the subtle differences in technique, style and outcome. Actually seeing that level of mastery raises awareness and possibilities for the student.
The first time you repot a truly healthy rootball in the appropriate substrate for that species is a definite memory!
You immediately have less time for silly arguments over getting by with sub standard approaches. Taking the time to painstakingly wire and arrange after thinning or pruning and tweaking each step of the way is revealing and rewarding, especially when you can step out to the garden and view the results if you keep improving.
Guided practice under the watchful eye of a master is aided by the real life examples present in the workshop and the masters collection.
Pot selection becomes so much easier to understand and apply when each student is sent out to the nursery to select three options for every tree you consider. There are hundreds to choose from.
The discussion of each option for the tree with pot and tree in front of everyone is very effective, with actual show quality trees and pots being used each time.
If one has the resources and the time studying with a master in their location is I believe the best option, second best is if the master can work with you on your trees and/or combine with a local study group. I believe the study group adds a greater variety of trees and scope of learning. And as pointed out by others can make the experience more cost effective!
Although I see the benefits to virtual presentations I do not think it will replace the hands on guided practice and actual experience of working with show quality trees.

I haven't had the opportunity to have a "pot off", but everything else you describe has been my experience as well. I've learned so much more by the exposure to much better trees. I've learned what is possible and what we're aiming for. I've learned (some of) the techniques to get them there. I've learned refinement techniques. I've learned what healthy is. I've learned what a rootball is SUPPOSED to look like. What its supposed to feel like. How its handled. What a fine ceramic looks, feels, and sounds like.

I've also been in the workshop w/ (newer) folks who bring their own trees. They do get the benefit of improving their own trees, but I feel like they're not getting as much out of it as they could be if they were working on better trees.

I don't know how this relates to the OP, but it bears mentioning.

 

[BobbyLane]

im just going by the thread title.
imho if one wanted to take his trees to the next level one would only need to study the progression threads of Mach, Walter, Brian, Judy, Adair, Maros, Mirai, Marky, Bjorn etc etc and all for free too. just my opinion tho.

to sum up, if you do what they do, your trees will dramatically improve. facts that cant really be argued

 

[leatherback]

imho if one wanted to take his trees to the next level one would only need to study the progression threads of Mach, Walter, Brian, Judy, Adair, Maros, Mirai, Marky, Bjorn etc etc and all for free too. just my opinion tho

Unfortunately, not all are able to learn from these threads alone. For some, having someone on their side showing the little tricks real live is a big part of learning. I think that is why the question, how to employ a pro?

But I agree, I lot can be deducted from the threads here!

 

[BobbyLane]

Unfortunately, not all are able to learn from these threads alone. For some, having someone on their side showing the little tricks real live is a big part of learning. I think that is why the question, how to employ a pro?

But I agree, I lot can be deducted from the threads here!

so in answer to the other bit. how to employ a pro. have deep pockets?
or learn it for free, the choice is yours.
sure i get that some need to have a teacher standing over them, its a bit like when we were at school. the only way we could gain an education was by going to school.
but somehow i dont think that is as necessary in bonsai just my opinion.

 

[Adair M]

so in answer to the other bit. how to employ a pro. have deep pockets?
or learn it for free, the choice is yours.
sure i get that some need to have a teacher standing over them, its a bit like when we were at school. the only way we could gain an education was by going to school.
but somehow i dont think that is as necessary in bonsai just my opinion.

Bobby, I will say that on-line learning is better than no learning, but nothing compared to learning in person with a good teacher.

Not all bonsai “masters” are good teachers!

I can tell you that I had been messing around with bonsai trees for 40 years before I went to Boon’s and studied with him. And the things I learned in those first three days far exceeded the totality of what I had had managed to learn in the previous 40!

The key is to find someone who’s trees you like and is a good teacher.

 

[BobbyLane]

I haven't had the opportunity to have a "pot off", but everything else you describe has been my experience as well. I've learned so much more by the exposure to much better trees. I've learned what is possible and what we're aiming for. I've learned (some of) the techniques to get them there. I've learned refinement techniques. I've learned what healthy is. I've learned what a rootball is SUPPOSED to look like. What its supposed to feel like. How its handled. What a fine ceramic looks, feels, and sounds like.

I've also been in the workshop w/ (newer) folks who bring their own trees. They do get the benefit of improving their own trees, but I feel like they're not getting as much out of it as they could be if they were working on better trees.

I don't know how this relates to the OP, but it bears mentioning.

thats a big point though isnt it. how many have the material that is even worth taking to the 'next level'
we know that the pros have it. how many are going out and buying material that can take them close to the material the pros have or even close to what the pros had at the beginning?
so thats right they will only get so much from that. btw its not just about seeing finished trees, it helps to see better material of course.
but i want to see how the material started too.... i can take a lot from seeing how a tree started to the the present day. rather than just seeing a photo of a finished tree. what i may be starting with may be more comparable to what they started with.

 

[Adair M]

thats a big point though isnt it. how many have the material that is even worth taking to the 'next level'
we know that the pros have it. how many are going out and buying material that can take them close to the material the pros have or even close to what the pros had at the beginning?
so thats right they will only get so much from that. btw its not just about seeing finished trees, it helps to see better material of course.
but i want to see how the material started too.... i can take a lot from seeing how a tree started to the the present day. rather than just seeing a photo of a finished tree. what i may be starting with may be more comparable to what they started with.

Most Masters will have trees in all phases of development. That’s one of the best parts of going there. Sure, it’s great to see the finished masterpieces, but it’s also instructive to see the “works in process”. The ones with rebar and guy wires and sacrifice branches, etc.

Going to visit periodically helps you “see the progress”. Let’s say you go three times a year. As an example, you go in late winter, and repot a pine. Maybe do some needle pulling in it. Then return in June, and see all the new growth! Ok, you decandle it. Then return in November. The tree has now regrown new shoots where you decandled, and it’s time to pull old needles.

By going there several times, in different times of the year, working in the same tree, you learn to see how what you do affects the tree. And because you are away from the tree for months at a time, the change is startling!

Trees grow so slowly at home, you don’t “notice” the big changes as they happen.

 

[bwaynef]

My experience has been that there's more to learn from better trees. A lot of what we're taught to do when developing trees, once you spend several hours with your hands in one, you can see how those decisions led to what's there now, which leads to knew things to learn compared with if we were still back in the developing stage. (My experience has also been that while there are several benches of world-class trees on hand, there are also trays and trays of shimpaku cuttings awaiting being twisted up and lots of trees in wooden boxes and on wooden boards. Project trees. Trees in development. A whole yamadori yard as well. Plenty of developmental techniques on display. I suspect most folks offering instruction would have similar projects at hand.)

There's also a pressure when you're working on their material not to screw up, ...though I'll admit those mistakes tend to be extreme one-offs as you're unlikely to make that same mistake again. I regularly splay my branching out too far on my own trees and so far haven't mastered how to increase the apparent age by having "more elbow" on my young trees, but I'll never again remove a branch off the top of a pad/branch without thinking about it after I screwed up one of his. (There was another one to cut back to close by, thankfully!)

That said, at 1-on-1 (or -2 or -3) workshops, with my own trees like the OP intended this discussion to be about, I've still managed to learn a ton. For me, there's something different about where my brain stores the things that I actually do with my own hands compared with what I read about, hear about, or watch someone else do. Having someone on hand to correct your form as you're working ensures you're not reinforcing bad behaviors. It's also given me an urgency to have trees WORTH having a pro work with me on.

 

[leatherback]

There's also a pressure when you're working on their material not to screw up, ...though I'll admit those mistakes tend to be extreme one-offs as you're unlikely to make that same mistake again.

hm.. Yes. Had one of those moments last time I was working on the nursery trees.. You clip a branch. Owner happens to walk by, bends in and sais.. That would have been a nice trunk extention to cut back to. You get a little nervous.

(Then he laughed and said, All good; We will reduce the tree that far down, continue!)

 

[BobbyLane]

fair enough, each to their own. i think with enough experience of working on progressively better material, you will be able to judge for yourself what branch could of made a new trunk line. most of the stuff being discussed i can find online, but i get that some learn differently.

someone said you get to feel how a good root ball should feel. just buy a good tree.

a lot of peeps dont use forums or the internet too, i could see how those folk could benefit greatly from clubs, workshops, teachers.

 

[Adair M]

fair enough, each to their own. i think with enough experience of working on progressively better material, you will be able to judge for yourself what branch could of made a new trunk line. most of the stuff being discussed i can find online, but i get that some learn differently.

someone said you get to feel how a good root ball should feel. just buy a good tree.

a lot of peeps dont use forums or the internet too, i could see how those folk could benefit greatly from clubs, workshops, teachers.

You can buy “a good tree”. But how would you know if the roots (and rootball) have been worked properly?

If I buy a tree from Boon, or one of his students or clients, then I know it will be in good soil, and have been worked properly. That’s because Boon makes sure trees are potted properly. But there are others who may have “a good tree”, but haven’t paid attention to the root system of their trees.

I have found that many times people will buy a nice tree, but not have the skills (or knowledge) to repot properly, and all they do is buy a slightly larger pot, and add a new layer of soil on the bottom and around the rim! I once repotted a tree for a client, and found three sets of screen that used to cover the drain holes buried deep in the rootball! He couldn’t believe it when I reduced the rootball by 3/4! And I made him buy a new, properly sized pot! That tree had originally been an import from Japan. But mismanaged for 20 years!

 

[BobbyLane]

there's actually two ways, you can create your own good root system, there is enough info on here and other resources that explain how to manage and create fibrous roots systems. thats the goal for all of us isnt it, its one of the reasons we are so obsessed with soils. the other is buy a good tree, true it depends where you go. 9 times out of 10 though, if you buy a maple that was previously imported from Japan, it will have a good fibrous root system, unless its been neglected. one of the reasons fat imported tridents are quite pricey, because youre not just paying for a fat trunk with ok to decent branch structure, you are also buying a tree with a fibrous root system. a reputable nursery will import good material from overseas and repot them all right away. i can pop down to my local bonsai nursery, and i can 100% guarantee that all of his trees have great roots, compact roots. he goes over to the nursery in Japan himself and brings maples back by the truck loads.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I think anyone who employs a master...moves up not only a notch in their skills. But also how they see themselves as they are on their own journey.

I took one lesson with Adam Lavigne on the tigerbark. Since it was new to me and I wasn't really ficus knowledgeable. He explained growing out and cutting back. Similar to deciduous trees on that aspect. But ficus are a more aggressive grower. As with deciduous...when we don't take those steps...we end up with a tree that looks as if it was neglected for some time and the development is at the end of the branches on lanky long untapered branches. But I learned a few things I hadn't known. Wiring tricks... I left feeling I could properly take that tree to where it needed to go. But alas, it is a tropical ficus. So much of the knowledge was also species directed. I feel confident when I look at that tree as a northerner. I will do good by it.

But the rest of my collection...my knowledge was gained with some online classes as well as some amazing people who had paid for training who shares their knowledge freely and graciously. Or ones with an artistic eye who has offered guidance. Where does that place my own self worth for the hobby. I will forever see myself as a backyard hobbiest at best. I hate to travel by car. Yet went 4 hours to meet up with Adam. A small bucket item list checked off. I just don't see me traveling to train further. It's not in my makeup to push to travel. I'm sure my trees would be taken to the next level if I chose that for myself. But I'm content...to me,it's enough.

Yet,I can see the desire to take lessons with a pro for some. I agree with Adair, choose one you admire their work. I think...you would get more from studying with one teacher than many. Though hearing other master's techniques shouldn't be frowned upon. But as Adair explained...the benefits of seeing your work turn into fruition with time and seeing it later...doing the next steps needed. In my minds eye. A good way to learn...cause and effect of our techniques applies over a period of time. That you might not see using multiple teachers. If ones budget doesn't match that training level. Yet you wish to still learn. Then the other method mentioned with a study group sounds ideal.

 

[BobbyLane]

good points. im no master but with where im at now i doubt even if i won the lottery i would pay to have some bonsai tuition with a master, i would much rather spend that money on great material.

 

[Adair M]

good points. im no master but with where im at now i doubt even if i won the lottery i would pay to have some bonsai tuition with a master, i would much rather spend that money on great material.

Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

 

[Adair M]

there's actually two ways, you can create your own good root system, there is enough info on here and other resources that explain how to manage and create fibrous roots systems. thats the goal for all of us isnt it, its one of the reasons we are so obsessed with soils. the other is buy a good tree, true it depends where you go. 9 times out of 10 though, if you buy a maple that was previously imported from Japan, it will have a good fibrous root system, unless its been neglected. one of the reasons fat imported tridents are quite pricey, because youre not just paying for a fat trunk with ok to decent branch structure, you are also buying a tree with a fibrous root system. a reputable nursery will import good material from overseas and repot them all right away. i can pop down to my local bonsai nursery, and i can 100% guarantee that all of his trees have great roots, compact roots. he goes over to the nursery in Japan himself and brings maples back by the truck loads.

It’s much easier fir you guys in the UK and Europe to import trees from Japan than it is for us in the USA.