how long without water?
- Thread starter zita
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Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Define damage...
Depends on a lot factors... time of year, leaf mass, soil type, sun position, etc.
Depends on a lot factors... time of year, leaf mass, soil type, sun position, etc.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
As soon as the rootmass starts to dry out you will first see wilting. If at that point you do not water, leaves will start to dry out, and crumble. Wait another half a day, and roottips are dying.
Without water, a maple that has fully populated a pot, suitable for it size, in open coarse bonsai substrate? Within 24 hours you can expect to get these initial drying out signals.
Without water, a maple that has fully populated a pot, suitable for it size, in open coarse bonsai substrate? Within 24 hours you can expect to get these initial drying out signals.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Define 'normal' humidity.
There are so many different variables in this that a single answer is probably not possible. - Soil type, size of pot, size of tree, how damp the soil was before starting, how long since last repot, temp, humidity, shade, wind, whether the individual tree is accustomed to drier conditions, time of year, etc. etc.
@leatherback has given some very rough estimations, obviously based on conditions and soil at his place.
I'd expect maple tips to wilt after less than 24 hours. I often see this after just 12 hours in our Summer, but for me, 30C is a mild Spring day rather than typical Summer temps.
There are so many different variables in this that a single answer is probably not possible. - Soil type, size of pot, size of tree, how damp the soil was before starting, how long since last repot, temp, humidity, shade, wind, whether the individual tree is accustomed to drier conditions, time of year, etc. etc.
@leatherback has given some very rough estimations, obviously based on conditions and soil at his place.
I'd expect maple tips to wilt after less than 24 hours. I often see this after just 12 hours in our Summer, but for me, 30C is a mild Spring day rather than typical Summer temps.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Is there wind, cloud cover? What's the location of the tree, semi-shade, full sun? What soil are you using, free draining non organic, a bit of organic, a lot of organic material --how much? What time of the year is it--fall? mid-Spring?
So many factors contribute to soil dryness. It's a moving target all year.
So many factors contribute to soil dryness. It's a moving target all year.
catfish chapstick
Chumono
I have, on several occasions, left a trident maple in my basement (near a window) for 5 or 6 days while out of town. No water and almost no light and low humidity indoor temps and the plant didn't even wilt. I usually put it back outside on day 6.
I have left elm in a shady spot on my porch for 4 days without water and it didn't wilt either.
these are bonsai plants in small pots
I have left elm in a shady spot on my porch for 4 days without water and it didn't wilt either.
these are bonsai plants in small pots
EAlbertse
Seedling
Scientifically the point at which a plant cannot recover turgidity even if watered again is called the permanent wilting point. This can be determined in a laboratory controlled setting but as mentioned above it is very difficult to estimate at home because of lots of variables.
Leo in N E Illinois
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Once you see leaves beginning to wilt, it will be less than 24 hours before the point of no return will be reached. In my experience 3 or 4 hours is pushing your luck. This is true for most, if not all maple species. Japanese maple is from habitat that is moist or mesic temperate forest to wet temperate forest - aka temperate rain forest. Acer palmatum is not a drought tolerant species. Maples in general are mostly native to areas with consistent rainfall.
Pretty much all of Japan has a fairly wet climate, with the coastal climate being the driest, with rainfall increasing at elevation. No part of Japan approaches the dry weather encountered in deserts of Africa or southwestern USA. Using Japanese species in desert climates may not be practical.
@zita - you did not mention what country you are doing bonsai in. Or where you are located. If you filled out your profile to include a general location, Bnutters could give you more location specific advice.
What might be worth exploring is using local native species for bonsai. There will be choices of these species will tolerate drought better or low humidity better. For example I am not familiar with South African tree species to offer much advice.
For North America, I know that hop flowered hornbeam, genus Ostrya, is a bit more drought and low humidity tolerant than loose flowered hornbeam, or common hornbeam, genus Carpinus. Carpinus and Acer palmatum are often grown in near identical conditions, so if you grow Ostrya instead, you buy yourself perhaps 12 hours extra on the watering cycle. But Ostrya certain will need water, they are not a cactus.
Some pachycauls might be worth looking into. These are trees that store water in a spongey layer under the bark. They tend to have swollen areas in their trunks, so often do not present as smoothly tapering trees, but they do survive drought.
Genera to look into for pachycaul trees would include Operculicarya, Bursera, Commiphora, and Boswellia. There are many other desert trees, shrubs and plants that should be explored for bonsai for people unable to water their trees daily or twice a day.
The other option is to over-pot your trees. I use pots large enough that they do not dry out in 24 hours. This compromise does not create as convincing an image as a more shallow pot might create, but the easier watering schedule means the tree's longer term survival has a better chance. Bonsai is a hobby for home-bodies. If you are a frequent traveler, unless you have a "plant partner" that shares your bonsai passion, bonsai is not a good hobby to dive into.
Almost all the growers with medium to larger collections have installed automatic watering systems. This is what allows most of them to "have a life" away from their garden. So if you are invested in the hobby, a watering system should be in near future plans.
Pretty much all of Japan has a fairly wet climate, with the coastal climate being the driest, with rainfall increasing at elevation. No part of Japan approaches the dry weather encountered in deserts of Africa or southwestern USA. Using Japanese species in desert climates may not be practical.
@zita - you did not mention what country you are doing bonsai in. Or where you are located. If you filled out your profile to include a general location, Bnutters could give you more location specific advice.
What might be worth exploring is using local native species for bonsai. There will be choices of these species will tolerate drought better or low humidity better. For example I am not familiar with South African tree species to offer much advice.
For North America, I know that hop flowered hornbeam, genus Ostrya, is a bit more drought and low humidity tolerant than loose flowered hornbeam, or common hornbeam, genus Carpinus. Carpinus and Acer palmatum are often grown in near identical conditions, so if you grow Ostrya instead, you buy yourself perhaps 12 hours extra on the watering cycle. But Ostrya certain will need water, they are not a cactus.
Some pachycauls might be worth looking into. These are trees that store water in a spongey layer under the bark. They tend to have swollen areas in their trunks, so often do not present as smoothly tapering trees, but they do survive drought.
Genera to look into for pachycaul trees would include Operculicarya, Bursera, Commiphora, and Boswellia. There are many other desert trees, shrubs and plants that should be explored for bonsai for people unable to water their trees daily or twice a day.
The other option is to over-pot your trees. I use pots large enough that they do not dry out in 24 hours. This compromise does not create as convincing an image as a more shallow pot might create, but the easier watering schedule means the tree's longer term survival has a better chance. Bonsai is a hobby for home-bodies. If you are a frequent traveler, unless you have a "plant partner" that shares your bonsai passion, bonsai is not a good hobby to dive into.
Almost all the growers with medium to larger collections have installed automatic watering systems. This is what allows most of them to "have a life" away from their garden. So if you are invested in the hobby, a watering system should be in near future plans.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That kind of thinking can result in dead trees. Sorry.
this is a recipe for disaster and dead trees.
catfish chapstick
Chumono
I'm sorry. I'm not advising this. just telling my story...
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