I thought I was done buying trees this year

[Soldano666]

Until I found this Siberian larch at the back of bonsai west this morning for $175. A Serious cut back and wiring in the forecast this spring... any advice on repotting at the same time. The pot is full of roots and it was healthy as an ox this summer when I saw it diddnt mean to get my finger in there and that's a small bic lighter for a dramatic size comparison...

 

[Tycoss]

Nice lower trunk. If you cut back and re-grow a couple of times, you could have something really interesting here.

 

[Soldano666]

Yessss @Tycoss that bark tho. I'm pretty stoked. This might just be my best tree I haven't tried styling yet....

 

[ColinFraser]

A Serious cut back . . . in the forecast this spring...

Yep. Much more than you think. Design-wise, I think your whole tree is contained in that middle closeup photo.

 

[Soldano666]

Yep. Much more than you think. Design-wise, I think your whole tree is contained in that middle closeup photo.

Yup I'm thinking this branch is my new leader.

 

[sorce]

Yup I'm thinking this branch is my new leader.

After you layer it right above those first 2 branches.

Sorce

 

[ColinFraser]

Yup I'm thinking this branch is my new leader.

Like I said, much more than you think
The lowest thick branch (directly under the branch directly under the one you chose)would be my new leader . . .
. . . taper.

 

[Soldano666]

Yeah @ColinFraser ? Seems like to me a solid 5-10 to make that taper blend. At the soil line I'm at about a 5-6 inch spread of flair and roots buried in the weeds. I know bonsai is not a race but my thoughts are the branch I chose hads some thickness and is already growing upward so I won't have to redirect so hard and wait. Again no race but I'd like to be able to make something nice from what I was dealt.. I will be having a serious staring contest with this batch for several months before spring gets here. So all options are open

 

[Soldano666]

I was really hoping your branch could be my first branch and have a head start on being the thickest one of the bunch aside form the proposed apex... wired out but allowed unrestricted growth next year

 

[Soldano666]

After you layer it right above those first 2 branches.

Sorce

To get rid of the base? Or make a new tree out of the top. I had thought of that. However I've been quite unsuccessful at larch air layers. Not sure if I'm ringing too deep a bark cut or what but they just dry up and die everytime..... this experience has been with tamarack not this Siberian so who knows maybe my staring contest will lose and I'll just watch it grow next year.....

 

[Soldano666]

Butttttttt I won't have much taper from branch one to proposed apex. Dammnit I just saw this, or that @ColinFraser .... nice root spread and flare to a nice angle chance at 4 inches up and then A straight pole up to my apex....

 

[sorce]

To get rid of the base?

Definitely not....
That base looks raw.

The top would end up a forest tree.
(read, straight, little taper)

I'd love to see one of those first 2 branches on that first nub grown as a new leader, that angle change would be different. Very different.

Knowing what I know about your Larch Layering success.....

I would almost recommend it further!

Live or die....you are way better off!

Sorce

 

[ColinFraser]

Butttttttt I won't have much taper from branch one to proposed apex. Dammnit I just saw this, or that @ColinFraser .... nice root spread and flare to a nice angle chance at 4 inches up and then A straight pole up to my apex....

Yup.

 

[coh]

I'm going to propose another course to consider.

Before you succumb to the standard "cut off half (or more) of the trunk and bend a branch up to increase the taper" approach, I would really spend some time evaluating whether more of the current trunk can be used. I look at this tree...and see a tall, thin trunk with age and some taper (though not much, but not every tree has to be a taper-junkie), and lots of branch choices. I see potentially a tall, elegant almost literati style. What I can't tell for certain is whether there are existing branches in good locations, whether there is any trunk movement from other views, exactly how much taper there is.

I would probably wire some of the branches down and maybe do some computer virts with photos from various angles before making any decision to chop away most of that tree.

I've made two crude virts (see below), in each I've cut off everything above the split that occurs at the old trunk chop. You might choose to jin the top, or bend one of those leaders up to make a new trunk segment. It might not work, it might not be your preferred style, but worth considering in my opinion.

Disclaimer...I have a liking for tall/elegant/thin trunked trees.

 

[Soldano666]

Well hot damn @coh. This was my first vision right before my gut made me Purchase it. I agree and like this as well, and there are perfectly placed branches all around and up and down the trunk. No movement whatsoever aside from the kink 4 inches up from the base. I saw this tree earlier this summer and I'd be willing to bet ill have more than enough buds all over this for many many options. I really like what you have done, and the consideration of making something that's closer to finished instead of growing out a new leader for the next 5+ years to get it big enough to match the lower portion of the trunk. Thanks for the virts

 

[Soldano666]

Disclaimer...I have a liking for tall/elegant/thin trunked trees.

View attachment 123802 View attachment 123803

Especially larch

 

[ColinFraser]

I'm going to propose another course to consider.

Before you succumb to the standard "cut off half (or more) of the trunk and bend a branch up to increase the taper" approach, I would really spend some time evaluating whether more of the current trunk can be used. I look at this tree...and see a tall, thin trunk with age and some taper (though not much, but not every tree has to be a taper-junkie), and lots of branch choices. I see potentially a tall, elegant almost literati style. What I can't tell for certain is whether there are existing branches in good locations, whether there is any trunk movement from other views, exactly how much taper there is.

I would probably wire some of the branches down and maybe do some computer virts with photos from various angles before making any decision to chop away most of that tree.

I've made two crude virts (see below), in each I've cut off everything above the split that occurs at the old trunk chop. You might choose to jin the top, or bend one of those leaders up to make a new trunk segment. It might not work, it might not be your preferred style, but worth considering in my opinion.

Disclaimer...I have a liking for tall/elegant/thin trunked trees.

View attachment 123802 View attachment 123803

I agree - tall and elegant is beautiful, especially with a species like this. I'm working a bunch of foeminas that way too.

The thing that made me reconsider the course for this tree is this photo:

View attachment 123600

The base tapers nicely and then changes direction. Do you think your tall virt works on top of that, or did it just take advantage of a viewing angle that hides the movement? (genuine question, tone is so hard by text).

I think the OP hit on what I was reacting to:

.... nice root spread and flare to a nice angle chance at 4 inches up and then A straight pole up to my apex...

 

[coh]

The thing that made me reconsider the course for this tree is this photo:

The base tapers nicely and then changes direction. Do you think your tall virt works on top of that, or did it just take advantage of a viewing angle that hides the movement? (genuine question, tone is so hard by text).

I did choose the photo that minimized the view of that bend to do my virt, as the bend seems to be somewhat inconsistent with the rest of the trunk. Just based on the limited views we have, I think you might have to do that to go with the tall option...though it's tough to tell from photos.

And it might turn out that the best option is to chop it down low, but I think that is something that can't be determined without seeing the tree in person. Just wanted to present keeping the height as an option. I've been seeing more trees lately that are shaped like that (tall, thin, not a lot of taper) and when they are done well, I find them quite striking.

Chris

 

[ColinFraser]

I think that is something that can't be determined without seeing the tree in person.

You are so right. Your suggestion is great too, and we might both agree on a third option we're the tree physically in front of us.