ID need for this seedling
- Thread starter Naoki
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thumblessprimate1
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Mung bean sprouts 
Just kiddin' definitely not looking like any pine. Have you tried to contact them? Probably get you the right ones sent out.
Just kiddin' definitely not looking like any pine. Have you tried to contact them? Probably get you the right ones sent out.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Naoki,
Are those not just cotyledons ?
Try for Pinus Hondurus Caribae not Elliottii, if you have no frost cold period, the Pinus e, does poorly.
Saw one at our Forestry departments, not doing well at all as a tree.
Remember you should be able to grow J.B.pine.
Good Day
Anthony
Are those not just cotyledons ?
Try for Pinus Hondurus Caribae not Elliottii, if you have no frost cold period, the Pinus e, does poorly.
Saw one at our Forestry departments, not doing well at all as a tree.
Remember you should be able to grow J.B.pine.
Good Day
Anthony
Mung bean sprouts
Those sellers won't even bother to answer.. If they do you won't know what they are talking about.. their English is worst than me..
Hi Anthony,
Thanks for the info. Checked both seedlings, don't look the same to the one i have. Pinus Hondurus Caribae seedlings grow like most pines which have 5 needles when develop from seeds to seedlings. As for cotyledons, I checked before they do look similar but the seeds didn't look any close to the seed i had when i planted... that's why I'm confused.. will let it grow for few more months and see the second stage leaf develops.
Oh.. I did try growing JBP from seeds but still trying to see what's the reason why all keep dying after 1-2 months.. I suspect my way of watering them...
Anthony, notice you from caribean area. If i'm not mistaken your climate is close to South East Asia right? humid and wet.. I got some white pines from a nursery during some holiday. The nursery guy just say they are white pine and the closes similarity i can find from internet is Eastern White Pine.
They already in bad condition and i'm not sure will they survive in hot and humid weather? Was cheap so i grab it haha.. Tried to see what i can do with it but the buds seem to grow for few milimeters then stunted...
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Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Naoki,
as an island we are breezy, have 6 months of no rain, temperature high is 30 to 33 deg.C but only for an hour to half an hour.
Humidity during rainy months [ July to November ] no more that 80% and we go down to as low as 45%
Night temperature during the "winter " months is 18 to 20 deg.C from 10 p.m until 8 a.m or so.
Will go back up to 22 deg.C later on.
Not exactly hot and humid, unless you live in a valley, and face West. No heat waves ever.
Pines do well for us as seed in silica based gravel at 3 mm plus a little peat moss or coco peat. They just need to start of in a
sterile medium.
Then after a year transferred to small earthenware clay pots, with more gravel and a little compost.
Oldest J.B.pine is about 27 years old from seed. A gift from Japan.
We grow them from cuttings now.
Do you need images?
Good Day
Anthony
as an island we are breezy, have 6 months of no rain, temperature high is 30 to 33 deg.C but only for an hour to half an hour.
Humidity during rainy months [ July to November ] no more that 80% and we go down to as low as 45%
Night temperature during the "winter " months is 18 to 20 deg.C from 10 p.m until 8 a.m or so.
Will go back up to 22 deg.C later on.
Not exactly hot and humid, unless you live in a valley, and face West. No heat waves ever.
Pines do well for us as seed in silica based gravel at 3 mm plus a little peat moss or coco peat. They just need to start of in a
sterile medium.
Then after a year transferred to small earthenware clay pots, with more gravel and a little compost.
Oldest J.B.pine is about 27 years old from seed. A gift from Japan.
We grow them from cuttings now.
Do you need images?
Good Day
Anthony
Slightly less rain and colder compare to my area here. I see.. after a year if I transfer to a plastic clay about 5 inch diameter is ok? cause clay pot quite heavy for me.. also I mostly leave it in my terrarium as if i left it outside they seem to die easily due to hot and burning weather, reaching 38c easily. 27 years old from seed? wow, that's cool. mine barely reach 2 month the die on me...
Sure, have any photo to share? If ok can PM me for the photo cause use as guide
Sure, have any photo to share? If ok can PM me for the photo cause use as guide
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Naoki,
we used information, from two sources, our Forestry folk and Bonsai Today Magazine.
Our local pine tree forests are grown on sand soils, with little organic matter. As one officer put it, the organic matter is in the trees.
If grown in clay soils, they are usually short and will often die.
So we use builder's gravel [ silica] 3 mm for seedlings and 5 mm for growing trees , an organic [ compost / coco peat / peat moss ]
and earthenware pots.
The training of pines requires trunk thickening, which the Japanese can do in clay pots.
Ask Sifu [ Adair ] for help when you past the health stage.
After germination they are left as single seeds in single pod germination trays. You know the common black plastic
trays used for seeds [ tomatoes etc ] Sun - morning sun and until around 1.00 p.m
Then 6 months to year [ depends on if you give a gentle tug and squeeze the tray cubes gentle and the plant comes
out with all of the soil ]
Simple transfer to 8 cm diameter x 6 deep cm clay containers.
Water and fertilise when needed. Placement full sun or sun until 2.00 p.m.
Next is a year later or by observation, into a clay pot that is 15 cm diameter but still only 6 cm deep
This is just because the potter's make that size, not any special reason.
However, we have noted that the clay container can get wider, but no deeper than 12.5 cm to 15 cm deep.
They seem to prefer a broader pot, not deeper.
The clay containers should be porous.
We just keep getting wider as containers go, but not deeper.
The Idea here is health and just getting the pine to grow and trunk thicken. Our sunlight encourages adventitous buds.
I will stop here as you need to just grow for three to four years.
I read over at AUSbonsai, that the J.B.pine, when training, in zone 10 and milder climates, might be treated more as
a simple tropical tree. We are exploring the idea, too soon to discuss.
Left images over in the Conifer section of BNut, will locate and add new images here, hopefully by Saturday.
Plate is a bit full presently.
Thank you for your patience.
Good Day
Anthony
we used information, from two sources, our Forestry folk and Bonsai Today Magazine.
Our local pine tree forests are grown on sand soils, with little organic matter. As one officer put it, the organic matter is in the trees.
If grown in clay soils, they are usually short and will often die.
So we use builder's gravel [ silica] 3 mm for seedlings and 5 mm for growing trees , an organic [ compost / coco peat / peat moss ]
and earthenware pots.
The training of pines requires trunk thickening, which the Japanese can do in clay pots.
Ask Sifu [ Adair ] for help when you past the health stage.
After germination they are left as single seeds in single pod germination trays. You know the common black plastic
trays used for seeds [ tomatoes etc ] Sun - morning sun and until around 1.00 p.m
Then 6 months to year [ depends on if you give a gentle tug and squeeze the tray cubes gentle and the plant comes
out with all of the soil ]
Simple transfer to 8 cm diameter x 6 deep cm clay containers.
Water and fertilise when needed. Placement full sun or sun until 2.00 p.m.
Next is a year later or by observation, into a clay pot that is 15 cm diameter but still only 6 cm deep
This is just because the potter's make that size, not any special reason.
However, we have noted that the clay container can get wider, but no deeper than 12.5 cm to 15 cm deep.
They seem to prefer a broader pot, not deeper.
The clay containers should be porous.
We just keep getting wider as containers go, but not deeper.
The Idea here is health and just getting the pine to grow and trunk thicken. Our sunlight encourages adventitous buds.
I will stop here as you need to just grow for three to four years.
I read over at AUSbonsai, that the J.B.pine, when training, in zone 10 and milder climates, might be treated more as
a simple tropical tree. We are exploring the idea, too soon to discuss.
Left images over in the Conifer section of BNut, will locate and add new images here, hopefully by Saturday.
Plate is a bit full presently.
Thank you for your patience.
Good Day
Anthony
Leo in N E Illinois
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those definitely look like pine seedlings. Normal pine seedlings ha 2 cotlyone leaves, that are thicker than subsequent leaves or needles, they contain the starches that were in the seed, stored food for the future tree. Next will be juvinal needles, here they will be single, not in bundles like mature foliage. Seedlings will produce juvinal foliage for some time, often a couple years before they revert to mature adult needles in bundles foliage. You won't be able to verify the species of pine until it has begun showing adult foliage. But at least you can be confident the seed was at least a pine species.
Redwood Ryan
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You sure about this Leo? I'm not used to seeing pine seedlings emerge like this. They're usually more than two cotyledons...
Not sure i can agree with you about these as pine seedlings. My knowledge about pine is low but from the internet i tried to look for pine type seedlings and as i can see almost all pines species have the similar shape of seedling with is a stem up and 5-6 cotyledons if i'm not mistaken.
Checked... nope.. Buddist pine seedlings don't look anything like that... for the top part yes but bottom nope..don't see any buddist pine photos with two huge cotyledons... only crown like sprouting out from the middle of the seedling..
haha agree... 5-6 as needle like cotyledons... but not those 2 slim and long cotyledons...
As petegreg said but not even close.. the similarity..
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I was going to guess corn.Mung bean sprouts
Leo in N E Illinois
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@Redwood Ryan - Hi Ryan - you're right, I may be wrong there. I was working from memory, and the older I get the more I confuse the stuff I really remember with the stuff that I have a "vague but seems true" recollection. And as I think about the batch of pine seedlings in my yard that are about to start their 3rd growing season, the cotyledons were multiple, and either fell off or in time became indistinguishable from juvenile needles.
So end result I have no clue what those seedlings are.
Some of mine:
Flat with mixed seedlings - 2 summers old, ready for 3rd summer - Lacebark (Pinus bungeana), Pinion - (Pinus edulis), Ginkgo, and ironwood - Ostrya virginiana
Sure, weird thing is the center of the seed has a patch thing... not sure you can see from the pic or not. The second photo is from today... like yew seedling...
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ColinFraser
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Interesting stuff; I never bothered to look into pine cotyledons before. The Wikipedia entry for 'cotyledon' has some cool tidbits about gymnosperms:
"Gymnosperm seedlings also have cotyledons, and these are often variable in number (multicotyledonous), with from 2 to 24 cotyledons forming a whorl at the top of the hypocotyl (the embryonic stem) surrounding the plumule. Within each species, there is often still some variation in cotyledon numbers, e.g. Monterey pine (Pinus radiata) seedlings have 5–9, and Jeffrey pine (Pinus jeffreyi) 7–13 (Mirov 1967), but other species are more fixed, with e.g. Mediterranean cypress always having just two cotyledons. The highest number reported is for big-cone pinyon (Pinus maximartinezii), with 24 (Farjon & Styles 1997)."
"Multicotyledonous" is definitely the word of the day!
"Gymnosperm seedlings also have cotyledons, and these are often variable in number (multicotyledonous), with from 2 to 24 cotyledons forming a whorl at the top of the hypocotyl (the embryonic stem) surrounding the plumule. Within each species, there is often still some variation in cotyledon numbers, e.g. Monterey pine (Pinus radiata) seedlings have 5–9, and Jeffrey pine (Pinus jeffreyi) 7–13 (Mirov 1967), but other species are more fixed, with e.g. Mediterranean cypress always having just two cotyledons. The highest number reported is for big-cone pinyon (Pinus maximartinezii), with 24 (Farjon & Styles 1997)."
"Multicotyledonous" is definitely the word of the day!
Cypress187
Masterpiece
Very cool how u guys can grow stuff that small and not kill it.
For Leo i'm guess he's has lot of seeds to grow new seedlings, but for me i'm more into black pine and there is almost no pine that can grow naturally in lowland area in my area or equator except Indonesia i think which they call "Pine Mercusii" but that is another neighboring country and i don't see that seed is available in the net and i'm not sure it's useable for bonsai or not (haven't seen any post about people use it as bonsai). Therefore, I try the net to buy black pine seeds but end up with different seeds which resembles black pine seeds
BTW, I killed a lot of my BP seedlings.. mostly due to overwatering..
