Immortal trees?

[Velodog2]

I believe some Japanese maple cultivars, propagated only by grafts or cuttings, have existed for hundreds of years. but the life span of a single Japanese maple is not, I believe, hundreds of years but more like maybe 60-80. So something is going on here.

I've never heard of a cultivar suddenly dying out because all the progeny simultaneously begin acting "old", as you might expect if aging progressed normally in all the tissue resulting from the original tree.

Perhaps tree senescence is structural due to tree diameter, height, I dunno, whatever, rather than genetic as with most animals.

If anyone has actual information about studies of this rather than speculation it would be very interesting.

 

[Giga]

I feel like this is the transporter debate in startrek...

 

[Quince]

I have heard that propegators must be very careful with stock plants especially when it comes to fruit trees. In the long run viral infection/genetic degradation is almost inevitable in the mother plant. That's why it is important to have many stock plants of the same cultivar maintained and monitored. Lines can degrade over time, so they are nearly but not quite imortlal.

 

[Velodog2]

One would expect the original stock plant, or even a series of first generation clones to decline over time through normal aging. But, where the "immortality" possibility lies is in using clones of clones of clones, etc.

Perhaps this works because grafts and cuttings are made as a rule from relatively fresh new growth. Maybe it is because trees continue to grow throughout their lives that this can be done. That is the loophole.

One could argue here that it's not only the branch tips that are renewed each year but also the out layers of the entire tree, thus resulting in growth rings. Maybe it is the inner layers, not sure if that is the xylem or phloem, that degrade. Honestly I don't know how trees age and die as a result.

 

[Anthony]

Check to see if trees have something like us --------- telomerase

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/labs/shay-wright/research/facts-about-telomeres-telomerase.html

scroll to third paragraph -

"However, each time a cell divides, some of the telomere is lost (usually 25-200 base pairs per division). When the telomere becomes too short, the chromosome reaches a "critical length" and can no longer replicate."

Anthony

 

[Quince]

Check to see if trees have something like us --------- telomerase

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/labs/shay-wright/research/facts-about-telomeres-telomerase.html

scroll to third paragraph -

"However, each time a cell divides, some of the telomere is lost (usually 25-200 base pairs per division). When the telomere becomes too short, the chromosome reaches a "critical length" and can no longer replicate."

Anthony

This article https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150430124113.htm presents research suggesting that a protein called telomerase is active in some plant meristems adding blocks to the telomere chain and allowing for perpetual cell division i.e. growth.

 

[Velodog2]

This article https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150430124113.htm presents research suggesting that a protein called telomerase is active in some plant meristems adding blocks to the telomere chain and allowing for perpetual cell division i.e. growth.

This is good! It says this happens in the ends of stems, where we take cuttings from. So the cuttings, from a telomere length standpoint at least, are "young" when we start new trees from them. Insofar as telomeres control aging, and there are I think other factors involved in animals at least, this explains the "immortality" pretty well.

 

[Ben74]

All the previous answers about telomeres and cuttings,etc. make a lot of sense.

So maybe it is possible to keep a lineage going forever, or a bonsai tree perpetually renewed. I don't know where the limit would be, maybe genetic mutations over a long time.

Thanks for your answers.