Is this a Deshojo?
- Thread starter Ayxowpat
- Start date
barrosinc
Masterpiece
It looks like it
You might not ever get 100% confirmation on it but I'd say it certainly looks like it. Given the inner leaves just starting to turn a little green, as they are older leaves. Mine is in the ground and still very much red, it will have leafed out after yours.
I also have a Beni Maiko which looks similar but not the same.. it'll do the same though, red now, turn green after, but it has slightly different colouring and shape of lobes.. really slight!
There are so many cultivars, it'll be impossible to confirm but given that Deshojo is so popular due to its red colour (when in fact many cultivars are red), I'd say the chances are highest that it is a Deshojo.
I also have a Beni Maiko which looks similar but not the same.. it'll do the same though, red now, turn green after, but it has slightly different colouring and shape of lobes.. really slight!
There are so many cultivars, it'll be impossible to confirm but given that Deshojo is so popular due to its red colour (when in fact many cultivars are red), I'd say the chances are highest that it is a Deshojo.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
If you bought it at a bonsai nursery or nursery that grows trees for bonsai yes Id agree its a high chance.
If you bought it at a home landscape nursery, Id say the chance is much lower
If you bought it at a home landscape nursery, Id say the chance is much lower
In which case, what variety would you say the highest chance of it being, is?
Even home landscape nurseries know about this stuff, at least where I am anyway. They have a good few cultivars in fact. "Ohh fancy colours, sell for more money", end of knowledge for them but its certainly not a Bonsai only thing mate
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...
Without a clear provenance, you will never know for certain what cultivar it is. But does it matter? A few weeks ago I came from someone's property and he has over 1000 Japanese maples, either in landscape or in cultivation. Many of them are from seed - just random trees that he liked the look of and that he cultivated separately. Does it matter that they aren't fancy cultivars if you know their growth characteristics and they look awesome?
Without a clear provenance, you will never know for certain what cultivar it is. But does it matter? A few weeks ago I came from someone's property and he has over 1000 Japanese maples, either in landscape or in cultivation. Many of them are from seed - just random trees that he liked the look of and that he cultivated separately. Does it matter that they aren't fancy cultivars if you know their growth characteristics and they look awesome?
Ayxowpat
Yamadori
This is an imported bonsai. I think it was always worked as a bonsai. I mean it wasn't a nursery stock for sure. I actually don't care what variety it is, but I am making bonsai for professional purposes. So my customers are frequently asking about the cultivars. This is why I need to know what variety it is.
Do you think this may be a Beni Maiko?
Thanks for all the answers given.
Do you think this may be a Beni Maiko?
Thanks for all the answers given.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
It’s one of those Red-Leafed Doo-hickeys!
Love it for what it is!
Not for it’s name...
If you found out, at 29 years old (or relatively “into” your life) that you were 3/8 native American (or any other race than you THOUGHT you were)... would you want it to change how people treated you?
You’d be like, “I was ALWAYS cool!”
Cool tree!
Love it for what it is!
Not for it’s name...
If you found out, at 29 years old (or relatively “into” your life) that you were 3/8 native American (or any other race than you THOUGHT you were)... would you want it to change how people treated you?
You’d be like, “I was ALWAYS cool!”
Cool tree!
Juanmi
Mame
From where was it imported? From Japan? Do you still have the label or something?
I think the regulation dor exportation are quite strict over there.
I don't think it is a Beni Maiko.
It does look like a Deshojo, but it could be anything
Ayxowpat
Yamadori
It is imported from Japan but all the documentation are missing. There is only white export number tag on the tree. Why do you think it is not a Beni Maiko?
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
In which case, what variety would you say the highest chance of it being, is?
Even home landscape nurseries know about this stuff, at least where I am anyway. They have a good few cultivars in fact. "Ohh fancy colours, sell for more money", end of knowledge for them but its certainly not a Bonsai only thing mate
Landscape nurseries mostly stock what grows best for the home yard. Generally that isnt varieties like Deshojo, which is a less vigorous variety for home landscapes.
Ayxowpat has already clarified that it was imported as a bonsai. There are other red cultivars used for bonsai. Given the number of red cultivars, it could be anything.
Without a definitive identification guide, all we can do is guess at what it is. It is too bad the documentation has been lost.
Juanmi
Mame
If I'm not wrong the leaves of the Beni Maiko are a bit marbled (it's subtle) and the leaves on your photos look more plain.
For how long do you have it?
Maybe the changing of colors could help
Juanmi
Mame
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put links here. I was trying to find this japanese site.
It's a nursery who offers a large variety of japanese maples. I was shocked to see how many there are.
It's a nursery who offers a large variety of japanese maples. I was shocked to see how many there are.
Ayxowpat
Yamadori
Yes but it looks very similar to deshojo. The new and old leaves' colors, branch colors, shapes, even the length of the lobes are quite similar. This is why I thought it is a deshojo. More, mass produced low cost red JMs in Japan are generally Deshojo, seigen and rarely Beni Maiko. That's another reason that I thought this beauty is a Deshojo.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
The problem is that there are LOTS of varieties that all look similar. They are so similar that to positively ID the variety requires multiple meristics such as counting the points on the leaf edges, leaf veins, depth of the cuts between the lobes. Cant just go by color and general shape.
Juanmi
Mame
I agree. Based on the pictures and based on popularity, I would say it's a deshojo. But we could never be 100% sure.
Lately I've been looking a lot of information in japanese websites and instagram accounts (for reasons) about japanese maples, and deshoujous are clearly one of the most popular.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Without a clear provenance... ie record of ownership and original cultivar... you will NEVER know. It doesn't matter what it "looks like". It doesn't matter that it came from Japan and was raised as pre-bonsai. There is not a person on this site (or anywhere in the world) who can give you an identification based on appearance.
I am not trying to be harsh, but if that is your objective, it will never be fulfilled. Cultivars cannot be identified by appearance. They can only be identified by provenance - ie a clear path back to the original cultivar. Once that clear path is gone - or unknown - then it is just a red Japanese maple.
Yep I am agreeing with you. I am simply saying the chances are high it is deshojo, given the current information. Given the picture and the fact that Deshojo is a common red variety, it makes the chances quite high.
But as I said to begin with, there will be no way to tell for sure and there are a lot of varieties that are red
.Can you imagine the number of Maples out there, where the random website has simply said its "Deshojo" or "whatever" and for years we have simply taken it as gospel. Sometimes ignorance is bliss
Canada Bonsai
Chumono
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@Bonsai Nut is correct.
If you have to ask what cultivar it is, then you will never know. Assigning a cultivar based on appearance is irresponsible and deceiptful.
The fact that it came from Japan and is red is totally meaningless. Propagation and naming practices vary widely in Japan, and the distinction between cultivar and non-cultivar among pre-bonsai growers is not always a concern.
Regions also give their names to ‘varieties’, like the wine world does. For example, ‘Awaji’ or ‘Tokushima’ Japanese Black Pine, ‘Nasu Musume’ Japanese White Pine, or ‘Fuji’ Japanese Beech, are all grown from seed. You might see a plant labelled ‘Awaji’ Japanese Black Pine and think of it as a ‘true’ cultivar, but you would simply be looking at the situation in the wrong way.
If you have to ask what cultivar it is, then you will never know. Assigning a cultivar based on appearance is irresponsible and deceiptful.
The fact that it came from Japan and is red is totally meaningless. Propagation and naming practices vary widely in Japan, and the distinction between cultivar and non-cultivar among pre-bonsai growers is not always a concern.
Regions also give their names to ‘varieties’, like the wine world does. For example, ‘Awaji’ or ‘Tokushima’ Japanese Black Pine, ‘Nasu Musume’ Japanese White Pine, or ‘Fuji’ Japanese Beech, are all grown from seed. You might see a plant labelled ‘Awaji’ Japanese Black Pine and think of it as a ‘true’ cultivar, but you would simply be looking at the situation in the wrong way.
Bolero
Omono
I'm quite certain it's "Deshojo" Acer Palmatum, the Leaf's Lobes tend to be a little Narrower compared to the other Maples and a very Distinct Red coloring....
Could you post a photo of the Trunk...???
Could you post a photo of the Trunk...???
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