JBP cuttings w/ dark colored needles?

Leo in N E Illinois

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@KillerButts
Anthocyanin metabolism, has nothing to do with movement of iron in or through a plant cell. Separate processes.

As to your question, is the anthocyanin transported to the "red or purple areas" or is it revealed by the withdrawing of the chlorophyll, -the answer is, I don't know. Generally I assume it is revealed by the withdrawing of the chlorophyll. But I do not have a citation for that.

Iron, as a iron porphyrin compound (a heme) is important in one of the steps of sugar manufacture, but my molecular biology days are 40 years ago. "I ferget". Iron is a necessary nutrient because of its use in metabolism.

Chlorophyll is a porphyrin, with magnesium in the center of the porphyrin ring. Chlorosis most often is a deficiency of magnesium. However, because iron is crucial in the intermediate steps of the manufacture of sugars, chlorosis can also be caused by a lack of iron. Similar symptoms, different shortages. Usually if I see chlorosis I supplement both iron and magnesium.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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As to your question, is the anthocyanin transported to the "red or purple areas" or is it revealed by the withdrawing of the chlorophyll
I don't think it is revealed by withdrawal of chlorophyll. If you put a plant back into a high temperature, the anthocyanins disappear within a couple days; faster than chlorophyll can be regenerated. And it happens even in the dark. The anthocyanins are generally used by plants to inhibit oxidative stress caused by the chlorophyll responding to light and producing free radicals. Because of low temperatures and therefore low biological activity, most of the energy generated by the chlorophyll has nowhere to go and will damage the cellular structures as a result, like our sunburns. Anthocyanins tend to protect against that damage.
Again, I'm not sure, but if the chlorophyll would reduce then I'd expect there to be less anthocyanins; they wouldn't be needed because the production of free radicals would also be decreased.

Somebody asked some scientists the same question, the answer seems to be unclear.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I don't think it is revealed by withdrawal of chlorophyll. If you put a plant back into a high temperature, the anthocyanins disappear within a couple days; faster than chlorophyll can be regenerated. And it happens even in the dark. The anthocyanins are generally used by plants to inhibit oxidative stress caused by the chlorophyll responding to light and producing free radicals. Because of low temperatures and therefore low biological activity, most of the energy generated by the chlorophyll has nowhere to go and will damage the cellular structures as a result, like our sunburns. Anthocyanins tend to protect against that damage.
Again, I'm not sure, but if the chlorophyll would reduce then I'd expect there to be less anthocyanins; they wouldn't be needed because the production of free radicals would also be decreased.

Somebody asked some scientists the same question, the answer seems to be unclear.

As I said, and you have said, the answer is unclear.
 

leatherback

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I don't think it is revealed by withdrawal of chlorophyll. If you put a plant back into a high temperature, the anthocyanins disappear within a couple days; faster than chlorophyll can be regenerated. And it happens even in the dark. The anthocyanins are generally used by plants to inhibit oxidative stress caused by the chlorophyll responding to light and producing free radicals. Because of low temperatures and therefore low biological activity, most of the energy generated by the chlorophyll has nowhere to go and will damage the cellular structures as a result, like our sunburns. Anthocyanins tend to protect against that damage.
Again, I'm not sure, but if the chlorophyll would reduce then I'd expect there to be less anthocyanins; they wouldn't be needed because the production of free radicals would also be decreased.

Somebody asked some scientists the same question, the answer seems to be unclear.
The cited article states it is mostly created actively as it starts to cool down, on top of what is present.
 

Haines' Trees

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A good look at the variation in color on one of my trays. Most are showing some of that reddish hue but a few are still the usual green. Some of the juvenile needles on a few appear to be dead or dying which is slightly worrisome.
F0946201-59B1-40F3-BD9B-5FF57CD92205.jpeg
We have snow in the forecast tonight. Not much is supposed to come down, but it does mean that it’s time to start the autumn two step. Will be moving these in and out of the shed from now on, along with a few others. I’ve already heeled in all my deciduous fortunately. Gonna get some mulch to top them and then maybe spread some grass clippings on top of that.

Winter has come.
 

Lumaca

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I am following this thread closely since a seedling I have is showing the same symptom.

Rainy season just started, but could it really be dormancy, at my climate where it never drops below 24°C?
 

Haines' Trees

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I am following this thread closely since a seedling I have is showing the same symptom.

Rainy season just started, but could it really be dormancy, at my climate where it never drops below 24°C?
If it never drops below 24C that’s probably the issue. In my climate I need to protect them from some of the coldest of winter; you could have the opposite problem. I feel like JBPs do best in a climate slightly warmer than mine but probably a bit cooler than your equatorial climate. I know a few people on the forum who have some really nice ones live in or around So California or the Gulf region where winters are milder but still get nearer to freezing temps for a short period.

I imagine you’ll have trouble getting them to properly go dormant if it never gets below 24C. Without dormancy the trees will weaken in time. There are ways around that problem. I’ve heard of people placing trees in a refrigerator to simulate a cooler winter. I’ve never taken that approach since I get bitter cold winters in my area....
 

cmeg1

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They will come back as long as they are kept healthy.
My first attempt at pines almost a decade ago(do not laugh).
They turned very red from potting late summer,but in Spring grew right fine!! Lol

Loosing the immature leaves is normal after mature leaves form too.
B79DC77F-3523-40E3-96E2-C5031226A538.jpeg4C56C41C-0A39-4FA5-A9D5-08A69EA1CC44.jpeg
 

Lumaca

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If it never drops below 24C that’s probably the issue. In my climate I need to protect them from some of the coldest of winter; you could have the opposite problem. I feel like JBPs do best in a climate slightly warmer than mine but probably a bit cooler than your equatorial climate. I know a few people on the forum who have some really nice ones live in or around So California or the Gulf region where winters are milder but still get nearer to freezing temps for a short period.

I imagine you’ll have trouble getting them to properly go dormant if it never gets below 24C. Without dormancy the trees will weaken in time. There are ways around that problem. I’ve heard of people placing trees in a refrigerator to simulate a cooler winter. I’ve never taken that approach since I get bitter cold winters in my area....
That would be a shame! I started the JBPs after reading that they might do fine without dormancy... I'll keep what I have going as best as I could for now and if they die... it's a learning exp...

They will come back as long as they are kept healthy.
My first attempt at pines almost a decade ago(do not laugh).
They turned very red from potting late summer,but in Spring grew right fine!! Lol

Loosing the immature leaves is normal after mature leaves form too.
View attachment 337683View attachment 337684
Your first picturture is pretty much what I have right now, do you stop watering at that point? This gives me hope hahaha
 

cmeg1

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That would be a shame! I started the JBPs after reading that they might do fine without dormancy... I'll keep what I have going as best as I could for now and if they die... it's a learning exp...


Your first picturture is pretty much what I have right now, do you stop watering at that point? This gives me hope hahaha
Just like any care for pine at time of year✌️
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Rainy season just started, but could it really be dormancy, at my climate where it never drops below 24°C?
Dormancy is possible in those regions for (sub)tropical pines, but I have never seen discoloration at those temperatures. Not even in tropical plants from other families, not until temperatures dropped below 10°C or so.
If you're experiencing a colorfull pine, it's probably something caused by another factor than temperature.
 
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