Juniperus virginiana, The long and winding road to bonsai

[Joe Dupre']

Oh, did I say that out loud?!

 

[leatherback]

Nope. You wrote itout loud. But I can read!

 

[Joe Dupre']

Oh-oh, I've commited a fox paw!

 

[leatherback]

fox paw!

Are they lucky like rabbits paw?

 

[Joe Dupre']

On ERC they are.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Here is another roadside collection. I've been working on it for a year or so. Still a bit rough but I like the movement.

View attachment 329938

awesome movement!! are you gonna keep it with needles? also have a promising ramification

 

[Joe Dupre']

Arnold, I'm not quite clear on your question about the needles. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[TN_Jim]

I like it, got nice movement, Its a yamadori I guess?

Like @Joe Dupre' is a roadside find..steep embankment middle of nowhere country drive..

I hesitate to call it yamadori technically I suppose, because it was within the realm of cut by the county dept for some years, not the wind and snow exactly.

Natural ERC here can be found limestone vertical-ish inner bows of rivers...boat & vertical gear, permission - private, army corps or TVA land...other places too sure, there’s rock outcrops everywhere....East of Mississippi these/those areas can be prone to threatened or endangered plants, tread knowing, nobody wants a felony for collecting ERC

 

[Dragon60]

I kinda went crazy with my ERC. When I first pruned it about 2 1/2 years ago I nearly killed it. Then I styled it about five different ways, including windswept. But finally ended up with what I guess is an informal upright. It's been fun. Here are some pics of the stages:

 

[JoeR]

I kinda went crazy with my ERC. When I first pruned it about 2 1/2 years ago I nearly killed it. Then I styled it about five different ways, including windswept. But finally ended up with what I guess is an informal upright. It's been fun. Here are some pics of the stages:

I think you've arrived at the best possible design the tree currently presents you with, very nice.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I think you've done well with the tree. I'd be tempted to keep up-potting it every time it makes a solid root ball. Two or 3 of those over just a few years would give you a much bigger and more powerfull tree. Keeping it mostly at the current size would be very appropriate also.

 

[JoeR]

It reminds me of a tree posted in the trident styling thread, sorry forgot the poster. But if you were to follow @Joe Dupre' s post and grow a larger trunk, this is more or less something you could aim for.

 

[Dragon60]

I think you've done well with the tree. I'd be tempted to keep up-potting it every time it makes a solid root ball. Two or 3 of those over just a few years would give you a much bigger and more powerfull tree. Keeping it mostly at the current size would be very appropriate also.

It's actually been almost 3 years since I've done anything with the roots. I slip potted it a couple years ago into a bigger pot (that's why I don't show the pot) but didn't touch the roots. If I trim the roots right before spring, add fresh soil and keep it in a big pot that will boost the trunk hopefully. A bigger base would be nice but on the other hand I don't care so much for really big trunks - but a nice taper is good. Thank you for your advise.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I find the expected trunk size to be the hardest decision to make for many people. I've asked a few fairly new local people "What size trunk base do you want?" If they say "I don't know." , I figure they are going to have a rough road ahead. If you don't have any idea the size you're shooting for, you really can't make an informed decision on the tree's progression. If you have a finger sized sapling and you envision a 3" base, making the wrong decision will delay the tree for a LONG time.

 

[leatherback]

Nice design.
Now LEAVE IT ALONE for a year or so. Get it back to full health and strength

 

[Dragon60]

Nice design.
Now LEAVE IT ALONE for a year or so. Get it back to full health and strength

So wait til 2022 spring for a repot? Or maybe just slip pot again? I honestly think the main reason I didn't kill this tree off is because I left the roots alone.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Slip potting is NOT leaving a tree alone. "Slip potting" often, usually does end up disturbing the root system as much as a full normal repotting. It is a noob mistake to think "slip potting" is harmless and doesn't count. It does count.

Now it is true occasionally one can be gentle enough repotting a tree that it will seem the tree won't notice. But you will never hear an experienced bonsai grower talk about slip potting anything. Reason is, more than half the time, no matter how gentle you think you are you end up breaking the fine root hairs. The most important part of the root system is the root tips and the root hairs, because 90% of the absorption of water and nutrients happens at the root tips and the fine root hairs that come off the root tips. The root tips are very brittle, it is almost impossible to take a plant out of a pot and into another with damaging some major part of the root tips. Even flexing a plastic pot can break enough root tips to be a problem.

I know in conventional gardening we often "slip pot", but most garden plants are less seasonal in their root production. Some of the tree species we use for bonsai are very seasonal in when they grow new root tips. If you damage root tips during a period with no root growth, the tree may end up having to limp along on a damaged root system for months before the next episode of root growth.

So keep in mind that "slip potting" trees used for bonsai is a much more serious hazard than "slip potting" at tomato or pepper plant.

 

[Dragon60]

Slip potting is NOT leaving a tree alone. "Slip potting" often, usually does end up disturbing the root system as much as a full normal repotting. It is a noob mistake to think "slip potting" is harmless and doesn't count. It does count.

Now it is true occasionally one can be gentle enough repotting a tree that it will seem the tree won't notice. But you will never hear an experienced bonsai grower talk about slip potting anything. Reason is, more than half the time, no matter how gentle you think you are you end up breaking the fine root hairs. The most important part of the root system is the root tips and the root hairs, because 90% of the absorption of water and nutrients happens at the root tips and the fine root hairs that come off the root tips. The root tips are very brittle, it is almost impossible to take a plant out of a pot and into another with damaging some major part of the root tips. Even flexing a plastic pot can break enough root tips to be a problem.

I know in conventional gardening we often "slip pot", but most garden plants are less seasonal in their root production. Some of the tree species we use for bonsai are very seasonal in when they grow new root tips. If you damage root tips during a period with no root growth, the tree may end up having to limp along on a damaged root system for months before the next episode of root growth.

So keep in mind that "slip potting" trees used for bonsai is a much more serious hazard than "slip potting" at tomato or pepper plant.

This tree still has the original rootball on it from when I dug it up around 6 years ago. How much longer should I go before a regular repot then.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This tree still has the original rootball on it from when I dug it up around 6 years ago. How much longer should I go before a regular repot then.

I had lost track of just what has been done to this tree in the last 2 years, and am not going to do back to read the whole thread. My point is. DON'T SLIP POT. DO A FULL REPOT, or DON'T DO ANYTHING.

In the correct season, do a normal, full repot, working the roots appropriately for the stage the tree is in.

Myself, for junipers, I do no pruning for 4 months or more before repotting. And I do no pruning for 12 months after repotting. In less severe climates than mine you might get away with being less conservative, but in my climate, I found observing this "hands off schedule", I have not lost any junipers in many years.

Also, once you have junipers in a good quality inorganic mix, you can go 10 years without repotting. As long as the media remains free draining and the tree-pot combination is still pleasing.

You should be making getting the juniper roots into a good media a priority. Which means, stop pruning, fertilize well, then repot, then allow adequate time for the tree to recover before resuming pruning. Roots are a priority. Since working the roots is traumatic for junipers, don't waste the opportunity with "slip potting", if you are going to repot at all, do a proper, full repotting complete with root work, half bare root or other technique. "Slip Potting" does NOTHING to improve the root system. Why waste the opportunity.

 

[Dragon60]

I had lost track of just what has been done to this tree in the last 2 years, and am not going to do back to read the whole thread. My point is. DON'T SLIP POT. DO A FULL REPOT, or DON'T DO ANYTHING.

In the correct season, do a normal, full repot, working the roots appropriately for the stage the tree is in.

Myself, for junipers, I do no pruning for 4 months or more before repotting. And I do no pruning for 12 months after repotting. In less severe climates than mine you might get away with being less conservative, but in my climate, I found observing this "hands off schedule", I have not lost any junipers in many years.

Also, once you have junipers in a good quality inorganic mix, you can go 10 years without repotting. As long as the media remains free draining and the tree-pot combination is still pleasing.

You should be making getting the juniper roots into a good media a priority. Which means, stop pruning, fertilize well, then repot, then allow adequate time for the tree to recover before resuming pruning. Roots are a priority. Since working the roots is traumatic for junipers, don't waste the opportunity with "slip potting", if you are going to repot at all, do a proper, full repotting complete with root work, half bare root or other technique. "Slip Potting" does NOTHING to improve the root system. Why waste the opportunity.

Thank you! This helps me tremendously. I will repot this in probably late January/early February, because here in Florida it will be spring-like then . And then I will just let it grow untouched (except to possibly remove wire if needed) for a very long time.