Kaneshin knob VS concave cutters

[Brian Van Fleet]

+1 for spherical concave cutters. Since I bought mine, I rarely use knob or concave cutters anymore. Knob cutters have blades set perpendicular to the handles so it’s hard to actually remove branches with them, but they are used for reducing already-cut stubs. You can get the same effect with spherical concave cutters. Mine are the 8” black steel from Kaneshin also, and I am very happy with the quality.

 

[penumbra]

…and neither of these is for use when doing finishing cuts on azaleas. Convex or sharp chisels or something that can make a smooth, very slightly convex wound.

best
DSD sends

Finally some useful info on this thread.
What do you use?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Finally some useful info on this thread.
What do you use?

I dunno, this thread seems to be full of useful information. You might find spherical concave cutters particularly useful. I know I did when I made the switch after 20 years of using both concaves and knobs.

 

[QuantumSparky]

I think I'll attempt an RMA and see if I can trade for the sphericals. It looks like I'll need those at some point anyway so why put myself in a position to have 'duplicate' tools down the road if I can have the more useful tool now.

 

[Wood]

Wait, what do you use for azalea? Curious to see, I didn’t know this

Pretty confident DSD is referring to these crescent cutters by Masakuni. I've heard several people, including @Owen Reich, use them for azaleas. At the workshop I took with him, we all shared the same three cutters to ensure our cuts were all convex and smooth

 

[rockm]

I have NEVER used a knob cutter and I've been doing this for a pretty long time. I have worn out several spherical concave cutters, though. I've also got a range of sizes in those tools, from medium to extra large. Knob cutters are mostly useless 95% of the time. Invest in a decent concave cutter.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Pretty confident DSD is referring to these crescent cutters by Masakuni. I've heard several people, including @Owen Reich, use them for azaleas. At the workshop I took with him, we all shared the same three cutters to ensure our cuts were all convex and smooth.

Yep, and one might try this site too for these at a bit lower price.

I have NEVER used a knob cutter and I've been doing this for a pretty long time. I have worn out several spherical concave cutters, though. I've also got a range of sizes in those tools, from medium to extra large. Knob cutters are mostly useless 95% of the time. Invest in a decent concave cutter.

Haven’t been around like @rockm , but my pair of knob cutters is cleaned and oiled with all the other tools, but never used.

However I’ve seen a lot of tools used for things they ”aren’t“ supposed to be used for, sometime innocuously, sometimes to the detriment of the user… and others never used for what they were ”supposed” to be used for.

Using concave or knob cutters for a ‘finishing cut’ on azaleas can leave one with a wound that will take a long time to heal… if ever, and not look right for a really long time on most azaleas we have….

Here’s a photo of an example on a big satsuki. See center part of the image and just to the left too. Concave or knob cutters were used to create a ‘finishing’ cuts on this Secchu no Matsu... much like one uses on maples etc. Yet Azalea bark is so thin it closed up over the wound and preserved the concave wounds. These cuts were made years ago.



However… In an expert case counter to this situation, I have seen knob cutters used by a Japanese master on larger, older satsuki for all kinds of branch cutting and carefully made finishing countour trunk cuts. On one of his videos he mentions hus knob cutter tool is used to contour the wood to create an effect like the tree trunks in nature on old trees. His videos are posted on YouTube…. Bonsai Master

Hope this comment isn’t considered a thread ‘hijack!’

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Wood]

Yep, and one might try this site too for these at a bit lower price...

Just placed an order for these last week, and they're currently on a 2 month backorder

 

[QuantumSparky]

Yep, and one might try this site too for these at a bit lower price.


Haven’t been around like @rockm , but my pair of knob cutters is cleaned and oiled with all the other tools, but never used.

However I’ve seen a lot of tools used for things they ”aren’t“ supposed to be used for, sometime innocuously, sometimes to the detriment of the user… and others never used for what they were ”supposed” to be used for.

Using concave or knob cutters for a ‘finishing cut’ on azaleas can leave one with a wound that will take a long time to heal… if ever, and not look right for a really long time on most azaleas we have….

Here’s a photo of an example on a big satsuki. See center part of the image and just to the left too. Concave or knob cutters were used to create a ‘finishing’ cuts on this Secchu no Matsu... much like one uses on maples etc. Yet Azalea bark is so thin it closed up over the wound and preserved the concave wounds. These cuts were made years ago.

View attachment 400261

However… In an expert case counter to this situation, I have seen knob cutters used by a Japanese master on larger, older satsuki for all kinds of branch cutting and carefully made finishing countour trunk cuts. On one of his videos he mentions hus knob cutter tool is used to contour the wood to create an effect like the tree trunks in nature on old trees. His videos are posted on YouTube…. Bonsai Master

Hope this comment isn’t considered a thread ‘hijack!’

Cheers
DSD sends

So you'd suggest a flush cut or slightly convex cut for Azalea branches? I do have a few azaleas in the works

 

[Treefer]

I find that the knob cutters give me a rougher cut edge, I never use them on branching only on roots now that I know the difference.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

So you'd suggest a flush cut or slightly convex cut for Azalea branches? I do have a few azaleas in the works

For a final cut, yes. Very slightly convex, mirroring the trunk.

One should keep recall taking off branches, especially on established trees, is much safer as a multi step process….

… make a partial cut, keeping some foliage outboard of the cut to keep the sap flow at a reduced level…

wait to let the sap line reestablish in other parts of the tree… then full cut. Timing varies… but give it some time.

Some make a another deeper partial cut, then wait again before making the final cut. Especially for older trees.

Really young trees, depending on the cultivar, are more vigorous and single small branches seem to do ok cutting all at once.

One does not need convex cutters if there are really sharp chisels or whittling knife at hand… azalea wood is hard.. So if you have these, you can wait to get the crescent blade branch ‘convex’ cutters.

cheers
DSD sends