I just wanted to know if there is a big difference with the different Larches in the bonsai world. Where I live, there is Western Larch by the millions and are easily collected. I see that others use European Larch and Japanese Larch. Is one better than the other for bonsai use and why is it better if I can ask? Thanks for your input. Peter
Larches
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Leo in N E Illinois
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Western larch, Larix occidentalis - because they live locally are your best choice. They are only occasionally used for bonsai, see the Oregon artist's blogs, or contact them for any quirks of western larch. Either Mike Hagedorn, or Jonas Dupuich, or Ryan Neil, Matt Reel, Dan Robinson, one of them has experience with western larch. I don't recall any negatives. Should be winter hardy without temperature protection. Maybe shelter from wind, etc but temperature should not be an issue.
Larix lyallii - sub-alpine larch - high elevations of western North America - high elevation up to the tree line, northward well into the arctic tundra tundra. Adapted to very short growing season, and very cold temperatures. Very likely totally intolerant of warm summers. Heat would limit its use at lower latitudes or elevations. Similar heat tolerance issues with Siberian species Larix gmelinii and Larix sibirica. Though there might be some L. gmelinii being used as bonsai, but I believe only where summers are mild, and winters cold.
European Larch - Larix decidua - is known for the trunk becoming much larger in diameter relative to height than Japanese or native eastern American larch - Larix laricina. Will grow in slightly dryer, less wet locations than Larix laricina (tamarack) but European larch would still want consistent moisture. Will tolerate a little more heat than Larix decidua. I would not attempt to grow warmer than zone 7a.
Larix laricina - Eastern American Larch - Tamarack - Native to North America east of Rocky mountains, range in extreme northern Canada is extends west of Rockies. Native into zone 3. Extremely cold tolerant. Native range does not extends only into zone 6 in the south of its range. Needs a consistent and long cold winter dormancy, which likely limits its southern range. Not a good larch for Florida. Native to bogs in its southern range, can live in very wet pure peat soils, or can live in very inorganic, mineral soils in the more northern extent of its range. It wants consistent moisture available all year round. Acid to neutral soils are okay. Despite its origin in bogs, it does not seem sensitive at all to soil pH. So don't worry about it. Any mix suitable to conifers would work if not allowed to get dry.
Larix kaempferi - from mountains of central Japan, cold and heat tolerance similar to European larch, tends to be slender and graceful at bonsai size trees. So good for zones 6, 5 and 4 growers in North America. Maybe into zone 7a.
All larches work best in vertical styles, cascades are near impossible to keep healthy. Semi-cascades have been done with European larch, but it is hard to get a larch to grow in directions below horizontal. They want to grow either up or out.
Repotting MUST happen before green is visible sticking out of buds in spring. - The emphasis is mine, due to my problems with repotting, if you have been successful repotting after buds have begun to open that is fine, most people have trouble if repotted after spring growth as expanded beyond the bud stage.
That is most of what I know.
Larix lyallii - sub-alpine larch - high elevations of western North America - high elevation up to the tree line, northward well into the arctic tundra tundra. Adapted to very short growing season, and very cold temperatures. Very likely totally intolerant of warm summers. Heat would limit its use at lower latitudes or elevations. Similar heat tolerance issues with Siberian species Larix gmelinii and Larix sibirica. Though there might be some L. gmelinii being used as bonsai, but I believe only where summers are mild, and winters cold.
European Larch - Larix decidua - is known for the trunk becoming much larger in diameter relative to height than Japanese or native eastern American larch - Larix laricina. Will grow in slightly dryer, less wet locations than Larix laricina (tamarack) but European larch would still want consistent moisture. Will tolerate a little more heat than Larix decidua. I would not attempt to grow warmer than zone 7a.
Larix laricina - Eastern American Larch - Tamarack - Native to North America east of Rocky mountains, range in extreme northern Canada is extends west of Rockies. Native into zone 3. Extremely cold tolerant. Native range does not extends only into zone 6 in the south of its range. Needs a consistent and long cold winter dormancy, which likely limits its southern range. Not a good larch for Florida. Native to bogs in its southern range, can live in very wet pure peat soils, or can live in very inorganic, mineral soils in the more northern extent of its range. It wants consistent moisture available all year round. Acid to neutral soils are okay. Despite its origin in bogs, it does not seem sensitive at all to soil pH. So don't worry about it. Any mix suitable to conifers would work if not allowed to get dry.
Larix kaempferi - from mountains of central Japan, cold and heat tolerance similar to European larch, tends to be slender and graceful at bonsai size trees. So good for zones 6, 5 and 4 growers in North America. Maybe into zone 7a.
All larches work best in vertical styles, cascades are near impossible to keep healthy. Semi-cascades have been done with European larch, but it is hard to get a larch to grow in directions below horizontal. They want to grow either up or out.
Repotting MUST happen before green is visible sticking out of buds in spring. - The emphasis is mine, due to my problems with repotting, if you have been successful repotting after buds have begun to open that is fine, most people have trouble if repotted after spring growth as expanded beyond the bud stage.
That is most of what I know.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
The buds will glow/shine with a golden tone. Once you've seen it, you'll know exactly what to look for.
I prefer European larch because they're easy to get here in Europe, and if they're young (less than 5 years), they're pretty much indestructible. Believe me, I have tried. I ripped one from the frozen soil this winter, and it's happily growing right now. Repotting in the dead of summer? Lost some foliage at most.. I treat them with a lot less respect compared to pines, and they seem to endure just fine. Sure, they're not happy sometimes, but they endure. That's no guarantee for others though!
Good info @Leo in N E Illinois !
Very good info Leo. l think I will stick to collecting the Western Larch around here. They were easy for me to collect and I had a 100% survival rate with the few that I did collect. I do have some European Larch seedlings coming from Wisc and we will see how they are. Any ideas where one might obtain the Japanese species? Peter
PS: do I have to wait for a little green to show before repotting and collecting or is it ok to do this in early spring (now) before the green comes on?
PS: do I have to wait for a little green to show before repotting and collecting or is it ok to do this in early spring (now) before the green comes on?
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Very good post by Leo.
In Europe, we also have Larix x marschlinsii, better known by its synonym Larix x eurolepis, AKA Dunkeld larch. It's a natural hybrid from Larix decidua (European larch) and Larix kaempferi (Japanese larch), is more heat tolerant than both species and looks more like Larix kaempferi.
Here, it's the best species for bonsaï, but of course our climate is very different from Oregon or Illinois :
That's what I would also do !
It's always better to work with local species that have adapted to the local conditions for centuries.
PS : I've just worked on one of my Dunkeld larch : https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/larix-x-eurolepis-08-02.26621/
In Europe, we also have Larix x marschlinsii, better known by its synonym Larix x eurolepis, AKA Dunkeld larch. It's a natural hybrid from Larix decidua (European larch) and Larix kaempferi (Japanese larch), is more heat tolerant than both species and looks more like Larix kaempferi.
Here, it's the best species for bonsaï, but of course our climate is very different from Oregon or Illinois :
That's what I would also do !
It's always better to work with local species that have adapted to the local conditions for centuries.PS : I've just worked on one of my Dunkeld larch : https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/larix-x-eurolepis-08-02.26621/
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As the guys said above, repot BEFORE any green is showing, when the buds turn golden.
DirkvanDreven
Shohin
I find it hard to find real European Larch (decidua). Even when you go collecting in our forests, you'll find Kaempferi or crossings of kaempferi and decidua, that have the typical orange twigs in winter.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Is this not a pot for a Larch?
A cedarish color.
Sorce
A cedarish color.
Sorce
DirkvanDreven
Shohin
parhamr
Omono
I’m in 8b or 9a (inner Portland) and have successfully grown a healthy Larix kaempferi since 2014 — https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-larch-progression.26354/
Many others in the Bonsai Society of Portland have healthy larches, including Western and Japanese species, but most of those folks are in the microclimates of zones 6 to 7b.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Leo in N E Illinois
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repot before green shows, if you see green, it is too late.
If I green begins to show, I really do wait until the following year, or if an emergency, wait until late summer, early autumn. An emergency is usually a broken pot, other than that larch do need to be repotted in late winter. Before green.
Leo in N E Illinois
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Japanese larch is only available occasionally. Check William Valavanis's website. International Bonsai in Rochester, NY. sometimes he has bare root seedlings, sometimes older seedlings. Similar with Kaede Bonsai-en the Matt Owinga website.
Bill V's site.
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/
various seedlings, more mature plants, pots and magazine. The magazine is worth subscribing to.
Matt's Site https://kaedebonsai-en.com/shop/product-category/bare-root-seedlings/
always check out Matt's ebay offerings of imported pots. Some real beauties.
Bill V's site.
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/
various seedlings, more mature plants, pots and magazine. The magazine is worth subscribing to.
Matt's Site https://kaedebonsai-en.com/shop/product-category/bare-root-seedlings/
always check out Matt's ebay offerings of imported pots. Some real beauties.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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- USDA Zone
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Meehan's Miniatures sometimes has Japanese Larch. Email them, it might not be on their website, but they might have a few in stock.
http://www.meehansminiatures.com/index.html
http://www.meehansminiatures.com/index.html
That's where I got my two larches, a year ago last spring during a visit to Meehan's.
parhamr
Omono
These folks can ship to Oregon. They’re a bit spendy but have high quality material and they’re a non-profit doing important propagation work.
https://www.forestfarm.com/trees-shrubs?genus=494
Yosemite Goat
Mame
They are located in Oregon
