Wilson
Masterpiece
@Zach Smith I feel like you could start a whole new thread, laying out your theory on the Marxist democrats.
Las Vegas...
- Thread starter Dav4
- Start date
Zach Smith
Omono
Most likely. The problem few will come out and admit is that as the Democrats moved farther and farther left over the past four or five decades, they basically became the Communist Party USA (which endorsed Hillary, BTW). All middle-ground sentiments and their practitioners were purged. Unfortunately, they have most of the information dissemination under their control. Government, Media, Academia (university-level), and Entertainment (GAME) are roughly 95% Marxist. Google, Facebook and Twitter stand ready to censor anything that doesn't agree with the plan.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Good Lord, I have stepped into an episode of the Twilight Zone..........
Wee
Chumono
It took swat almost an hour and a half to knock down the hotel room door....Reports are that the shooter took his life right before they entered.....I haven't heard how long the shooting went on....? Did he actually run out of ammo or did he just quit shooting...? I also saw reports that he had ammonium nitrate in his car.
Brian
Brian
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
You asked the question. In my opinion, I will answer to the best of my ability.
I was born in 1955. Music was music. In 1964, 9 short years we began to hear the new storytellers tell us of anti establishment sentiments. No more war, peace and love, and a bending of the mind with chemicals the world had never seen before. I remember the "beatniks coming on the school grounds trying to get kids to try "postage stamps, or sugar cubes". The teachers would run them off like swatting flies. It was not until my adult years that I found out the true meaning of the Guess Who song American Woman. It was one of my favorite songs of the sixties. Now that I know what it really means the song does not hold the same memory for me. Now I feel a little sick in my stomach. I remember what it was like before that.
I had the draft when I became of age. If you were born even in 1957 you have no idea the horror of what the draft was. To know you may "have" to go and fight in a war and lose your life for God and Country. Those that did either came out Patriotic heros or drug addled losers. There was not much middle ground. I was in the military lottery, beat it the 18 th year but lost out on the 19th year. Took my physical and had my orders only to have them turned around by Richard Millhouse Nixon with a letter saying he would not need my service. The draft was over. I experienced it, changed my life forever. We need the draft more than ever, they will teach us how to respect a nation rather than kneel when the national Anthem is played.
The playgrounds of grammer school were punctuated by the Green vans that would drive by while all the illegal's would yell "Migre" and scramble for cover. Now every illegal can stand proud in every school in America, earn a real education, get a hot lunch and get driven to school my a single Mom. I remember when it wasn't like this. When I grew up there was no welfare. I had my children with insurance or like my Mom and Dad did, on monthly payments to the hospital. All of my children have had their families on welfare, grew them up on welfare and still enjoy the benefits of the "earned income credit" that might have been something I could have used growing up with my young family! The more kids you make, the more money you get. I only had two kids because I understood the price of raising children and didn't want to extend myself. Not anymore, can't make it, have more kids and head to the AFDC office for more aid! I remember having my children when it wasn't like that.
I remember when the Viet Nam war was in it's worst in those final days of the sixties. I remember when the refugees began pouring into Fresno county, fresh from the killing fields learning to steal back home for a living stealing live mines for the metal to steal to buy a bunch of carrots or a chicken to eat.What they brought here was the stealing and the young Asian gangs that roamed the streets of Nam. Learning to game our system and take the jobs again thru affirmative action. I remember growing up before Hmongs and the Viet Nam refugees.
We had no computers, no internet, no cell phones and no cable TV. There were no 24 hour news stations that reported anything that would garner ratings and an extra buck regardless if its the truth or not. I watched Walter Cronkite on the news and never new he was the flaming liberal he is until much later in my adulthood. His politics had no place on the TV, news was expected to be truthful and precise and thats what it was until CNN. 24 hour news ruined America. I remember what it was before.
Things like affirmative action and the discrimination on those educated for the jobs rather then those with the "correct' skin color. I experienced it many times in my early years. Lost a couple really good cival service jobs that I was highly qualified for but turned down because they had to fill their "quota" of low educated persons for those jobs. I remember when just being better educated gave you the upper hand, not the color of your skin. I grew up before affirmative action.
So that is just a little in the nutshell, I'm sure guys like Vance Wood can add many things in his life that changed America forever, and not in a good way. Now, I'm a pretty rational guy, I have many guns and lots of ammo. I have no plans on shooting anyone in this world now or in the future. My life is sacred to me. I don't want to squander it on going out in a blaze of glory. ...but I am pissed.. I am pissed at how Mr. Trump is being treated, I was pissed when Mr. Bush was called stupid, and I was really pissed when Mr. Sanders thought that the Government should give us everything. Not pissed enough to shoot anyone but pissed enough to type all this out.
....but there are guys like me and of the same age that are plenty fed up with this nation and will do even the most heinous crime to make a statement. He made the world newspapers and the six and eleven o clock news...what have you and I done....
We have done nothing...but at least I know why he did it.....
Last edited:
justBonsai
Omono
Hey Al. I'm only 21 so I don't have any first hand experience or direct knowledge of what you've been saying. But even with my limited experience I can still figure out a thing or two.
I don't believe anyone is inherently stupid or wrong. Everybody comes from a different side with a perspective that is "just" through their own experience and knowledge. The problem with polarization in America is that most everyone believes the other side IS inherently stupid and wrong and no engagement comes out of it. A few weeks ago I saw an interesting bit of news. A group of BLM protesters were invited on stage at a pro Trump rally to have their say. Instead of a heated clash there was, for the most part, a sense of agreement and fidelity towards America. I tried to look for a video without too much political commentary that just recorded the events:
Reading your response Al I think you're right to believe what you do. I agree with some of it too like the bullshit running non stop on the news just to garner ratings and money. In regards to affirmative action I am not against it but have experienced its effects firsthand. I went to a very high ranking California high school that is immensely competitive and equally stressful. Unsurprisingly it's demographic is primarily Asian, as I am too. The college application process was very brutal--although me and many of my peers were academically and extra curricularly accomplished if you weren't highly distinguished among your peers you would be passed up for a similar student of a more "disadvantaged" demographic. I am not bitter about it and if anything the competitive environment I went through in high school has allowed me to excel over my peers at college. Although I'm not even in my top choice for college I've done well for myself and have made some great friends here too. Maybe the student I was passed up for would of more greatly benefited from the resources of a better program.
The college I go to, UCR, is primarily Hispanic. Many of the students come from the Inland Empire and surrounding cities that are poor, with sub par school districts and programs. It's a very diverse school in that the socio-economic demographic ranges across the whole scale affording me a broad perspective. I've firsthand been able to witness the difference between me, coming from an excellent school district and middle class family vs those of poorer districts and lower income upbringings. The barrier they have to climb over IS most definitely taller and the transition into college much more difficult. This is not just my conjecture but my experience as a member of the Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers where I did mentoring and worked at outreach events. With the right resources many of these people are as, if not smarter than me. And I've seen those that push through this barrier become very accomplished. They are NOT any less skilled or talented--the disadvantaged background they came from is very real and has tangible effects. Affirmative action definitely has its place. Is it always fair? No. Do people take advantage of it? Likely yes. But it does a lot for the youth of America that will hopeful uphold and improve it's state after you and others are long gone.
This past summer I worked in Lemont, Il. Close enough to Chicago to have some liberal influences but a greatly different political landscape than the pro-Bernie college campus Southern California I am used to. It was a great experience where I was able to talk to and befriend people of many different backgrounds and beliefs. I was also fortunate to be only a few miles from the Hidden Gardens where I spent a lot of time working on trees and hanging with Jeff and the crew.
During one of my last days at the Hidden Gardens I met an interesting older gentleman, Leon if I recall that right. By trade he was a Russian linguist but was tired with dealing people and all their bullshit and later became a landscaper. We had a lengthy conversation discussing the state of affairs, some politics, and various stories--his opinions were the same as yours Al. There were some comments that would not sit well with the far left, but reasonable by my measures. He was clearly upset about the state of America and also commented that he's never seen the polarization and political scene as bad as it is now. At over 80 years old he certainly must of experienced everything you brought up. He loved to travel and was going to visit Poland as his 40th or something country. One thing he told me that I agreed with is that people really take for granted all the privileges we have in America. It's not every country where you're afforded opportunity, stability, and growth. Is America great? Undoubtedly. But it has it's problems. I don't think there is any other country out there like America that we can use a model to work to or build from. America's is diverse, but that diversity is a double edged sword.
Diversity is the reason America is great. It is also the source of many of it's problems.
As far as the whole issue on guns, I firmly believe that laws and restrictions should become much tighter. I have heard the same pro-gun argument one too many times, "its not the weapon, it's the user!" Yes, within some logic you can argue that if someone really wants to kill people they will find a way, gun or not. But what other mediums really allow for such large scale mass killings? Sure someone could build a pressure cooker or pipe bomb but as someone else mentioned how much more work does it take to properly build a bomb then to strategically implement it instead of acquiring a gun and firing it.
I've mentioned this once before and I hate using it as a way to validate my thought, but I'm going to bring it up once again. In 2014 there was a shooting near UCSB in Isla Vista. My brother's roommate was KILLED, while shopping at a deli. I did not know him well and unfortunately I am not close to my brother but it is both immensely saddening and insane to imagine something could happen so close to home. I watch on the news the following days of the victim's father visibly heartbroken and outraged speaking at a press conference. The comments in this and related videos are disgusting. Most of them are calling crocodile tears and questioning how genuine his mourning is. It is sick that people will go to the point of questioning and demeaning someone's character in order to undermine their political opinions and beliefs. Kinda just like what we see across the whole political board.
Everyone cannot be 100% right 100% of the time. It is arrogant, whether you like it or not, to believe you are right 100% of the time. People have to compromise and work together as a whole. Many times in the past I've just threw in my 2 cents without offering any resolve myself. I've also tried staying indifferent, not picking a side--I think this is wrong too. Better to choose, and pick wrong then to not pick at all. I am not the most knowledgeable on politics and world affairs. Quite frankly many times I just don't care or feel invested enough to do so. I'm already busy enough juggling college, sorting my own personal problems, and trying to pursue a career in bonsai that is both unconventional and financially stressful for a young soon to be college graduate. I do not have the answers but even me, a young "inexperienced" man, can see that the current state of affairs and policy is not working. Both I and Leon, a moderate to right individual, agreed that the way America is going is not sustainable and could eventually lay ruin to the supposed great nation.
America is dynamic and has constantly changed over the years. I feel as if some people only want to see America in a "golden" state for them but not for future generations to come.
I truly do respect what everyone has said and took their opinion in earnest. I hope yall can do likewise. Now please excuse me while I go to sleep for my lectures in 5 hours.
I don't believe anyone is inherently stupid or wrong. Everybody comes from a different side with a perspective that is "just" through their own experience and knowledge. The problem with polarization in America is that most everyone believes the other side IS inherently stupid and wrong and no engagement comes out of it. A few weeks ago I saw an interesting bit of news. A group of BLM protesters were invited on stage at a pro Trump rally to have their say. Instead of a heated clash there was, for the most part, a sense of agreement and fidelity towards America. I tried to look for a video without too much political commentary that just recorded the events:
Reading your response Al I think you're right to believe what you do. I agree with some of it too like the bullshit running non stop on the news just to garner ratings and money. In regards to affirmative action I am not against it but have experienced its effects firsthand. I went to a very high ranking California high school that is immensely competitive and equally stressful. Unsurprisingly it's demographic is primarily Asian, as I am too. The college application process was very brutal--although me and many of my peers were academically and extra curricularly accomplished if you weren't highly distinguished among your peers you would be passed up for a similar student of a more "disadvantaged" demographic. I am not bitter about it and if anything the competitive environment I went through in high school has allowed me to excel over my peers at college. Although I'm not even in my top choice for college I've done well for myself and have made some great friends here too. Maybe the student I was passed up for would of more greatly benefited from the resources of a better program.
The college I go to, UCR, is primarily Hispanic. Many of the students come from the Inland Empire and surrounding cities that are poor, with sub par school districts and programs. It's a very diverse school in that the socio-economic demographic ranges across the whole scale affording me a broad perspective. I've firsthand been able to witness the difference between me, coming from an excellent school district and middle class family vs those of poorer districts and lower income upbringings. The barrier they have to climb over IS most definitely taller and the transition into college much more difficult. This is not just my conjecture but my experience as a member of the Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers where I did mentoring and worked at outreach events. With the right resources many of these people are as, if not smarter than me. And I've seen those that push through this barrier become very accomplished. They are NOT any less skilled or talented--the disadvantaged background they came from is very real and has tangible effects. Affirmative action definitely has its place. Is it always fair? No. Do people take advantage of it? Likely yes. But it does a lot for the youth of America that will hopeful uphold and improve it's state after you and others are long gone.
This past summer I worked in Lemont, Il. Close enough to Chicago to have some liberal influences but a greatly different political landscape than the pro-Bernie college campus Southern California I am used to. It was a great experience where I was able to talk to and befriend people of many different backgrounds and beliefs. I was also fortunate to be only a few miles from the Hidden Gardens where I spent a lot of time working on trees and hanging with Jeff and the crew.
During one of my last days at the Hidden Gardens I met an interesting older gentleman, Leon if I recall that right. By trade he was a Russian linguist but was tired with dealing people and all their bullshit and later became a landscaper. We had a lengthy conversation discussing the state of affairs, some politics, and various stories--his opinions were the same as yours Al. There were some comments that would not sit well with the far left, but reasonable by my measures. He was clearly upset about the state of America and also commented that he's never seen the polarization and political scene as bad as it is now. At over 80 years old he certainly must of experienced everything you brought up. He loved to travel and was going to visit Poland as his 40th or something country. One thing he told me that I agreed with is that people really take for granted all the privileges we have in America. It's not every country where you're afforded opportunity, stability, and growth. Is America great? Undoubtedly. But it has it's problems. I don't think there is any other country out there like America that we can use a model to work to or build from. America's is diverse, but that diversity is a double edged sword.
Diversity is the reason America is great. It is also the source of many of it's problems.
As far as the whole issue on guns, I firmly believe that laws and restrictions should become much tighter. I have heard the same pro-gun argument one too many times, "its not the weapon, it's the user!" Yes, within some logic you can argue that if someone really wants to kill people they will find a way, gun or not. But what other mediums really allow for such large scale mass killings? Sure someone could build a pressure cooker or pipe bomb but as someone else mentioned how much more work does it take to properly build a bomb then to strategically implement it instead of acquiring a gun and firing it.
I've mentioned this once before and I hate using it as a way to validate my thought, but I'm going to bring it up once again. In 2014 there was a shooting near UCSB in Isla Vista. My brother's roommate was KILLED, while shopping at a deli. I did not know him well and unfortunately I am not close to my brother but it is both immensely saddening and insane to imagine something could happen so close to home. I watch on the news the following days of the victim's father visibly heartbroken and outraged speaking at a press conference. The comments in this and related videos are disgusting. Most of them are calling crocodile tears and questioning how genuine his mourning is. It is sick that people will go to the point of questioning and demeaning someone's character in order to undermine their political opinions and beliefs. Kinda just like what we see across the whole political board.
Everyone cannot be 100% right 100% of the time. It is arrogant, whether you like it or not, to believe you are right 100% of the time. People have to compromise and work together as a whole. Many times in the past I've just threw in my 2 cents without offering any resolve myself. I've also tried staying indifferent, not picking a side--I think this is wrong too. Better to choose, and pick wrong then to not pick at all. I am not the most knowledgeable on politics and world affairs. Quite frankly many times I just don't care or feel invested enough to do so. I'm already busy enough juggling college, sorting my own personal problems, and trying to pursue a career in bonsai that is both unconventional and financially stressful for a young soon to be college graduate. I do not have the answers but even me, a young "inexperienced" man, can see that the current state of affairs and policy is not working. Both I and Leon, a moderate to right individual, agreed that the way America is going is not sustainable and could eventually lay ruin to the supposed great nation.
America is dynamic and has constantly changed over the years. I feel as if some people only want to see America in a "golden" state for them but not for future generations to come.
I truly do respect what everyone has said and took their opinion in earnest. I hope yall can do likewise. Now please excuse me while I go to sleep for my lectures in 5 hours.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
- Messages
- 13,111
- Reaction score
- 30,183
- USDA Zone
- 6a
We are lied to by the media and our elected officials every day... I believe this with all my heart. With that in mind, I'm not sure how a national draft would ever improve things, particularly when it's instituted by a government that's lost it's soul. You're assuming the gunman was driven to slaughtering his fellow citizens because his country has let him down? From what I've heard and read, the guy was a multi millionaire real estate investor with a gambling issue, so I can't connect the dots you've laid out for me at the moment. As far as what I've done?? Well, I went to work yesterday, told my wife and kids that I love them (more then a few times... which is typical), pushed my teenage daughter to apply to colleges that will challenge her as opposed to colleges that are slam dunks for her to be admitted into and affordable... life is too short to take the easy path, talked to my kids about politicians and the media and how you can't believe everything you see and here on the TV or the internet( they've heard it before but yesterday was another day with another new issue to dissect and try to make sense of). With that being said, it doesn't change the fact that tragedies like the one in Las Vegas will happen again and again unless something is done. I started this thread out of sheer despair at where we as a country have fallen, and I know that nothing will change.
Last edited:
barrosinc
Masterpiece
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
I appreciate this response and the thought and time you put into it. Youll have to forgive me if I say that it doesnt make sense that these are the reasons this individual did this.
As @Dav4 mentioned, this guy was not disadvantaged. He was pretty well off, and had made it. He had an attractive girlfriend, who by appearances is of non-white ethnicity. The world was his oyster.
I talked to my husband, who is a few years older than you are Al.
He was also in the draft he deferred it by going to college. After college, he tried to enlist in the CBees, the engineer corps of the military due to his education in civil engineering. He was 1A at the time which was almost a guarantee that you were going, until the draft lottery happened and he drew a high number which they never got to.
He saw the rise of affirmative action and saw many that weren't the best qualified get jobs. He himself was never denied a job because of it, because he worked for the same small company his whole life.
I am not sure what his experience with immigrants were growing up, but he is not a prejudiced man. He has hired minorities and has a homosexual man working for him.
So for someone around your age, he doesnt share your perspective. Perspective is largely a product of the environment you grew up and lived in. His is pretty different from the experience you related so I suspect thats the reason.
Last edited:
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I didn't say it was. It was a response to something Dav said. Dav spoke of division, I gave examples of how much the USA has changed in 50 short years and how that change has related to the division we experience. Frankly I don't care why he did it, any more that why my wife had cancer. He killed people...nothing we can do about it. My wife died, and nothing I could do about that.
We live here for a short time and make the best with the cards we are dealt. Some manage to pull an inside straight, and some couldn't find a pair if it kicked them in the ass.... just the nature of humans...but some people saying these poor people deserved what they got or that legislators that side with guns were in the Hotel room with him when he killed those people...that is the sad state of affairs in this nation and the division I speak of.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Unfortunately you have painted a dark picture of a man that is none of those. My wifes Homosexual daughter helped me thru the most traumatic experience of my life. I will always be grateful. I see no labels....
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Al, I did not mean to imply that you are prejudiced, I only meant to point out that my husband did not have the same experience with seeing immigrants fleeing from authorites that you did because he when he grew up there were not many immigrants here at the time.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
How about this for product placement?
Meanwhile, the rest of us are stunned at this theory... and taking the piss at the naivety....
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Come to sunny California, I'm a minority here!
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
For gun homicide rate, among all the countries in the world, the US rates 28th, behind such stalwarts as Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. Some of these countries ban the private ownership of firearms, though not all do.
Sounds like the majority, if not all of the shooting was conducted using two 5.56mm semi-automatic rifles equipped with bump stocks (that use the recoil of the rifle to enable rapid trigger pulls). The combination of rapid fire and jostled trigger hand makes these weapons highly inaccurate. In fact, from a range of 400 yards (the range of the shooter to the concert venue) you'd be lucky to hit the broad side of a barn. The shooter was just spraying the field, and if you got hit you were unlucky.
The shooter was a 64 year-old with no criminal background. Given that shooting was likely conducted solely with two weapons, I'm not sure what regulations people might suggest that would prevent something similar from happening in the future? National firearms backgrounds check and annual license? Nope. Limit gun ownership to 5 or fewer weapons? Nope. Or 3... or 2? Nope. I don't have an answer. Modifying your rifle for automatic fire is already illegal, though that doesn't stop people from doing it.
In the meantime, the vast majority of firearm deaths are due to handguns. Year to date in Chicago alone, there are almost 500 gun homicides so far this year... (2,401 shot and wounded just in that one city) a problem that dwarfs the issue of mass shootings by a factor of about 100.
Sounds like the majority, if not all of the shooting was conducted using two 5.56mm semi-automatic rifles equipped with bump stocks (that use the recoil of the rifle to enable rapid trigger pulls). The combination of rapid fire and jostled trigger hand makes these weapons highly inaccurate. In fact, from a range of 400 yards (the range of the shooter to the concert venue) you'd be lucky to hit the broad side of a barn. The shooter was just spraying the field, and if you got hit you were unlucky.
The shooter was a 64 year-old with no criminal background. Given that shooting was likely conducted solely with two weapons, I'm not sure what regulations people might suggest that would prevent something similar from happening in the future? National firearms backgrounds check and annual license? Nope. Limit gun ownership to 5 or fewer weapons? Nope. Or 3... or 2? Nope. I don't have an answer. Modifying your rifle for automatic fire is already illegal, though that doesn't stop people from doing it.
In the meantime, the vast majority of firearm deaths are due to handguns. Year to date in Chicago alone, there are almost 500 gun homicides so far this year... (2,401 shot and wounded just in that one city) a problem that dwarfs the issue of mass shootings by a factor of about 100.
Last edited:
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
You got a lot of nerve coming to this thread with all this rational thought...whats a matter with you, this is a knee jerk venting thread!!!
my nellie
Masterpiece
my nellie
Masterpiece
Excerpts from above link
So far, 47 firearms have been recovered from three locations in the investigation of Sunday's shooting, said Jill Snyder, special agent in charge of ATF's field division in San Francisco. They were found in the gunman's hotel room and two properties associated with the shooter's name.
Additionally, 12 bump-fire stocks were found on guns in the shooter's hotel room, Snyder said. Their "legality" depends on whether they mechanically alter the function of the fire to fire fully automatic, she said.
This survivor doesn't care about the gunman's motive
"I don’t care what his motive was because in my mind there's no justifiable motive, reason, belief that could account for what he did... I don’t ever want to hear his name I don't want to see his face," she told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
Law enforcement officials tell CNN Stephen Paddock has accumulated guns for more than 20 years. Officials have not yet determined precisely how many firearms he has purchased over the years or what happened to all of them.
So far, 47 firearms have been recovered from three locations in the investigation of Sunday's shooting, said Jill Snyder, special agent in charge of ATF's field division in San Francisco. They were found in the gunman's hotel room and two properties associated with the shooter's name.
Additionally, 12 bump-fire stocks were found on guns in the shooter's hotel room, Snyder said. Their "legality" depends on whether they mechanically alter the function of the fire to fire fully automatic, she said.
This survivor doesn't care about the gunman's motive
"I don’t care what his motive was because in my mind there's no justifiable motive, reason, belief that could account for what he did... I don’t ever want to hear his name I don't want to see his face," she told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
Law enforcement officials tell CNN Stephen Paddock has accumulated guns for more than 20 years. Officials have not yet determined precisely how many firearms he has purchased over the years or what happened to all of them.
Wilson
Masterpiece
It seems to be an unfortunate reality that gun violence is a part of American culture. As yoù noted, mass shootings are a drop in the bucket of the terrible reality of annual gun deaths. Sad stuff...