Ligustrum Quihoui

[SupathaiflY]

Hi everyone,

Let me first introduce myself: Harald, 35 yo from Belgium. Totally new to bonsai.
I've been reading for a while now and searched the web for as much as possible info.

Besides that I planted some young trees in my garden. Two weeks ago I bought my first bonsai. I came up with a Ligustrum Quihoui. Can't find much info on the species but I guess I have to care for it like any other privet. It's not the most beautifull tree (got it at 25$, so what you want). The idea is to get to know the basics and practice on the tree. Who knows it will be a great tree one day after all and if not, well, the pot is surely worth the 25$.
The tree has been outside since I bought it. Besides watering it, nothing has been done. It produces good new growth.

I still have some questions concerning the tree:
1/ Should I repot the tree at this stage of just leave it as it is? When I do repot, do I use 1/3 akadama and 2/3 regular soil?
2/ I don't like the moss on top of the soil, can I just get rid of it?
3/ Should I prune it back or just leave it as it is? Should I get rid of branches that I not planning to use?

Then I have a general question concerning the watering.
Here in Belgium we get quiet some rain. As I want to keep my bonsai(s) outdoors I'm a little concerned about this. If we get like weeks of rain, should the tree be moved to a location where it doesn't get soaking wet? Or is moving it from one spot to another all the time not a good idea. The privet will probably do fine but I guess that's not the case with most of the other trees.




Thanks everyone!

 

[Vin]

1/ Should I repot the tree at this stage of just leave it as it is? When I do repot, do I use 1/3 akadama and 2/3 regular soil?
2/ I don't like the moss on top of the soil, can I just get rid of it?
3/ Should I prune it back or just leave it as it is? Should I get rid of branches that I not planning to use?

Then I have a general question concerning the watering.
Here in Belgium we get quiet some rain. As I want to keep my bonsai(s) outdoors I'm a little concerned about this. If we get like weeks of rain, should the tree be moved to a location where it doesn't get soaking wet? Or is moving it from one spot to another all the time not a good idea. The privet will probably do fine but I guess that's not the case with most of the other trees.

Welcome to the forum! First thing, if it already has new growth it may be to late this year for a repot. Maybe you will get a response from someone local that can better help you with repotting times. Repots usually take place when trees are dormant. The tree looks quite happy in the pot it's in so I don't believe you'll have any issues leaving it for now. Removing the moss isn't an issue. However, it does hold in moisture which could be good or bad. Since you're in what sounds like a pretty wet climate, you probably don't need it. Keep in mind though, you have the perfect climate for moss to grow so it will come back.

Leaving it in the rain isn't going to hurt it unless the soil isn't draining well. It was most likely outside at the nursery when you bought it and again it seems happy. The pruning part is a bit tricky. The best advice is to find someone local (as in a club) that can help you with a design. You need to have a direction before you start cutting away branches. I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[klosi]

Hi and welcome!
First, don't repot it, it's too late it's not dormant anymore.
Second you can of course get rid of the moss.
Third ... This is what bonsai is about. I think you should read as much stuff as you can.
You can go here:
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?forums/articles-tutorials.54/
Or any other good bonsai site. Since you're in EU like me, this iste is excellent:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/

About the medium, read as much as you can about the soil. It's not Sci-Fi even though it may seem when bonsai people start talking soil Use as much inorganic as you can (regular soil is mostly not advisable), but more info on this you will find in the articels you will read

Regarding your concern about the rain. If you have a correct soil (read articles ) with a very good drainage then you don't have to worry to much. If you think that it has not stopped raining for very long time, then just move the tree under a close by roof.

It's a good tree, nice pot, so you're off to a good start. Privets are hardy and they can survive almost anything. And yes I mean anything, I saw a "trunk chop" that was just 1cm off the ground but it gave new growth and branches anyway

Good luck!

 

[akhater]

Hi

i'm by no way an expert but I usually repot privets and chinese elms as soon as I get them no matter the weather I just give them after care for a few weeks. these are hardy plants never been failed by one

I am NOT arguing with what was said before (that it is too late) just saying that you could, most probably, easily get away with a repot now

 

[SupathaiflY]

Vin, Klosi and Akhater,

Thank you for your anwsers.
So, what I've learned.
Don't repot it at this moment. Akhater, I know privets are hardy but I want to treath it like any other bonsai. Just to get the basics wright.
Second, the moss can be removed, just gotta keep an eye on the humidity level.
Next, soil soil soil, too many different opinions Gotta find something that works for you in your envirement.

I'm gonna leave it as it is atm and continue to get more info.
The club thing is a good idea but impossible with my working hours. (6 days a week till 7 in the evening + every saterday and sunday)

Once again, thank you for your advice, much appreciated!

Harald

 

[SupathaiflY]

Got some time today to remove the moss and take a close look to the roots of the tree.
Does look a lot different than I imagined.

(Don't know why pics are rotated, can an admin fix it pls?)

The soil is visible as well now, guess it isn't the best mix.


Someone told me my tree might be a sinense instead, does anyone agree?
Here's a close up from the leaves.


grtz,
Harald

 

[leatherback]

I'd say indeed, quihoui is unlikely and sinense seems more fitting..

 

[Djtommy]

Hi there,
dont know where in belgium you are from but if you have a chance maybe visit gingko bonsai center once near Gent, its quit big and they have lots of trees in different stadia, lots of nice ones too, though they are a bit expensive.
But just walking around there should be fun too, its important to look at many nice trees in reality, not just on internet and magazines.

Grtz

 

[Potawatomi13]

Harald; If it is within your budget and since you can't get to a Bonsai club I'd suggest searching the internet for Bonsai Techniques I and II by John Naka. Great information from beginning to advanced techniques. Out of print but still findable. Even if you can get to a club there is a wealth of good info in these 2 books.

 

[akhater]

Bonsai Techniques I from J. Naka is freely available on slideshare and the link is on BNut (sorry I don't remember it, I've downloaded it)

N.B. I'm not sure if that is legit I doubt it is

 

[SupathaiflY]

Hi there,
dont know where in belgium you are from but if you have a chance maybe visit gingko bonsai center once near Gent, its quit big and they have lots of trees in different stadia, lots of nice ones too, though they are a bit expensive.
But just walking around there should be fun too, its important to look at many nice trees in reality, not just on internet and magazines.

Grtz

Tommy,
Thanks for the info. I checked his opening hours and I might be able to go there on mondays.
Doesn't matter where one lives in Belgium, it's the size of a penny, you'll get from one end to another in no time

 

[SupathaiflY]

Harald; If it is within your budget and since you can't get to a Bonsai club I'd suggest searching the internet for Bonsai Techniques I and II by John Naka. Great information from beginning to advanced techniques. Out of print but still findable. Even if you can get to a club there is a wealth of good info in these 2 books.

Thanks. I will check it out.
Do you happen to know if the books of Harry Harrington (bonsai4me) are any good?

Bonsai Techniques I from J. Naka is freely available on slideshare and the link is on BNut (sorry I don't remember it, I've downloaded it)

N.B. I'm not sure if that is legit I doubt it is

Thanks, I'm gonna unleash the searchfunction on it ;-)

Grtz

Harald

 

[SupathaiflY]

Back for an update after 2.5y.

After a divorce the ligustrum staid with my ex.

In the meantime I've got myself an ulmus that I've left pretty much untouched. I did repot it because it needed some attention. The pot it quiet big but as I wanted to give it some freedom to grow I thought this could do no harm.

How it was when I bought it:


Halfway september:


A week ago:


The ulmus was outside but as we had rain, snow and cold for weeks I took it to an unheated room behind the window.
Any thoughts on this one?


About two weeks ago I've gotten a zanthoxylum as a Xmas gift.
Didn't ask for it, didn't know anything about it, but... I think it's a great little three.


Biggest problem is that there isn't too much info on this one.
Found that it should be given enough water (logical) and that it isn't the easiest bonsai to work with..
Some said it should go outside, others say it can be kept inside. The store where they got it from has one standing in the outside section and a bigger one in the inside section...

I'm not sure what to do with it. I really like it and as I said the store had an older one that looked quiet nice so I know what direction I might be going to.


A copple of questions though:
I'm a fan of this shape for this three, is there still a possibility to wire it and chance directions?

The lowest 3 branches face the same way, the second grows the other way but that's not what I'm looking after.
Should I just cut the lowest one and make the second one grow back to the other side?


One branche has snapped, seems like it has been like that for a while. Any advice on that? Allthough leaves are doing well and there is some new growth, it won't do so well as time goes by?


Well, I guess those are enough questions for now
Thanks for your time and advice!

Harald

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Nice Harald, glad over the last 3 years you stayed with the bonsai hobby.

It is winter in Belgium, right now your trees should be dormant, resting up for spring.
Your Ulmus is nice. Excellent species to lean bonsai with. I would not do anything to it until early spring. When you notice buds starting to swell, but before the leaves actually pop out of the buds is the time to do your pruning for shape, and if you want to, time to repot. You can actually begin pruning a little earlier than this point, but right now we are in the middle of winter, it is best to wait until late winter to prune. Repotting is best in early spring. Do not allow the tree to experience frost after spring repotting. Bring it inside on frosty nights. Otherwise it can be outside.

The Zanthoxylum is the family of trees referred to in English as the prickly ash family. I believe your tree is Zanthoxylum simulans - the 'Chinese Pepper Tree'. They have been used for bonsai though they are not very popular, they are used more commonly for Chinese penjing. The spice Sichuan pepper is the seed from Zanthoxylum simulans. This tree is native to the more sub-tropical areas of China. It has become an invasive species through the southern states of USA, especially Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. It can tolerate some frost, but it is not extremely cold hardy. In the USA we would consider it a USDA zone 8, and warmer tree, I don't know how that translates to your climate. If your unheated room stays above freezing you could winter it there. Next year if you leave it outdoors to adapt to the cold, it can likely survive through -5 C (+23 F). I believe that the roots would not tolerate freezing, but I am not certain of this. But right now the pepper tree has green leaves, which means it has not been adapted to the cold, so for the rest of the winter it should be kept above freezing. Your unheated room might be great as long as it doesn't freeze.

The Chinese Pepper tree can be very fast growing when given sun, water and warmth. Best growth will be outdoors, in full sun. It is not particularly good as an indoor tree. Not impossible indoors, just better outdoors. I have never grown a Zanthoxylum, not even one of the North American native species of Zanthoxylum, so my advice is ''Wikipedia advice'', which means I am talking with authority about a species I only have read about, and really don't know much about.

In general, the trunks of both of your trees is roughly 'S' shaped. Nothing wrong with that. Your main branches should be on the outside of the curves. Branches on the inside of curves are usually not visually desireable. So definitely plan on keeping branches on the outside of the curves. Consider removing branches on the inside of the curves.

You need to tell us what your plans for these two trees. What do you want to do with them? There are quite a number of directions we could go.

If you want to keep them roughly the size they are, style and shape as they currently are, and in the pots they are in - that will be one plan. - for this plan, I would mainly focus on letting the tree grow out, for a month or two, then cut back to bring it back into its shape. Each cut back I would prune to leave only 2 nodes worth of new growth from each new branch. Essentially cut off the bulk of the new growth. You should be able to prune like this 2 or 3 times per growing season. This will hold your tree roughly static, it will increase ramification, but you won't get much trunk thickening. You could continue in this pattern for a decade or two. The tree will not change significantly in character over time. Repot every 2nd or 3rd year, pruning roots back so that there is room to keep the tree in the same pot. Years that you repot in spring, do not prune until end of the growing season. Let them grow out a bit after repotting.

If you want to significantly redesign them - that would be a different sequence of action. At the point you want to change the design of the trees, I would move them into a large nursery pot, roughly 12 liters or more in volume, or a similar size volume colander or screen sided grow box. and then let them grow wild for 3 to 5 years. You will get all kinds of branches and growth. When you come back to them after their ''wild phase'' you will have lots of new branches to choose from, from which you can redesign your tree and create something completely different looking than the current image.

The elm in particular is a good choice for bonsai, the Chinese pepper tree is interesting, not commonly used material outside of China, but could become quite nice.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Bonsai Empire has an article on Chinese Pepper Tree

https://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/chinese-pepper


WARNING:
Apparently it is a lot more sensitive to cold than I had assumed from ''Wikipedia knowledge'' - Keep above 10 C.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Curious that ex wanted Bonsai. Usually think we are nuts/no interest.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Should I just cut the lowest one and make the second one grow back to the other side

If understood correctly; NO! Bending branch back across trunk or parent branch is not natural appearing. Unpleasing to eye of observer.

 

[petegreg]

Bonsai Empire has an article on Chinese Pepper Tree

https://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/chinese-pepper


WARNING:
Apparently it is a lot more sensitive to cold than I had assumed from ''Wikipedia knowledge'' - Keep above 10 C.

I've got few of these growing well indoors, they've been put on my west facing window sill for some five years. No supplementary lights. Growing year round as stated in the bonsaiempire article. They drop some leaflets from their compound leaves in autumn and then start growing again dropping the rest of old leaves. Really vivid plants. Propagation from cuttings and air-layers work well.

 

[sorce]

Congatulations on the divorce!
(Except if kids are involved)

If not!

Get you more trees!

Sorce

 

[SupathaiflY]

Nice Harald, glad over the last 3 years you stayed with the bonsai hobby.

Lots of great info..

The elm in particular is a good choice for bonsai, the Chinese pepper tree is interesting, not commonly used material outside of China, but could become quite nice.

Thank you so much Leo for the time you spend on your reply and the knowledge you want to share.

It gave me a lot of information to work with.

The plan for the trees... Getting to know the basics of bonsai, learn what to do and what not to do.
Step 1: Keep the tree healthy.
Step 2: ...

The ulmus might be kept in the S-shape, the pepper tree I prefer the sokan style. (as shown in the tree species guide on bonsainut)

Once, again, thx for your advice and time!
Harald