Lodgepole Pine Needles browning

[lgibbs28]

Hi everyone.
I purchased this lodgepole pine a couple months back. I moved it indoors on nights when it was supposed to get below 40 F here just to be safe after purchasing it. It was collected this past year, so the only thing I did was prune a few branches (under the eyes of Walter Pall) and then place it into a bigger pot without disturbing the roots or doing any rootwork. I just assumed it was shedding older needles at first, but today I saw that some of the new growth had browned and declined. I don’t believe overwatering is an issue, the soil drains readily and the pot is a fabric grow pot. Any ideas/should I be concerned? Thanks-

 

[BrianBay9]

First off there's no reason I know of to protect a lodgepole pine from the cold. They should be able to take anything an Illinois winter can deliver. I don't know if your moves back and forth inside can have a negative effect on the new needles.

Some years back I brought a number of ponderosa pines and lodgepole pines with me from Colorado to Indiana. The ponderosa's did fine but every one of my lodgepole pines declined and died within a year. Not saying you'll have the same experience, but it's possible that lodgepoles need more light or less humidity, or something else they didn't find in the midwest.

I hope you have a better experience with them than I did.

Brian

 

[lgibbs28]

First off there's no reason I know of to protect a lodgepole pine from the cold. They should be able to take anything an Illinois winter can deliver. I don't know if your moves back and forth inside can have a negative effect on the new needles.

Some years back I brought a number of ponderosa pines and lodgepole pines with me from Colorado to Indiana. The ponderosa's did fine but every one of my lodgepole pines declined and died within a year. Not saying you'll have the same experience, but it's possible that lodgepoles need more light or less humidity, or something else they didn't find in the midwest.

I hope you have a better experience with them than I did.

Brian

I know they can handle the cold here but I wasn’t sure of how protected it had been prior to purchasing it and just wanted to be safe. We have had drastic temperature changes in the last couple weeks and months. Thanks for the input... hopefully it bounces back.

 

[Vance Wood]

Did you acquire the tree at a workshop with Walter who provided the material?

 

[Walter Pall]

If the pictures you show are recently done I would not worry too much. it is clear that the the tree is not very happy, but there sure is hope. It might loose some branches but this is not the end of the world as I can see. I have no clue what could have gone wrong. The other lodgepole pines of that batch are all fine.

I would be nice to the tree, water it well and feed it a little every ten days or more frequently. When the temperatures get into the eighties I would place the tree in half shade . By the end of August then it should go back into full sun. Please don't do any styling at all until the tree looks happy again.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

How often do you move the pot? More than once a season might count as a 'major root disturbance'.
Fabric doesn't keep its shape very well. You might disturb the roots more than the tree likes by simply moving the pot; since the fabric moves, the entire soil shifts with it. I tried to tackle this issue by placing fabric pots on trays, so I don't have to touch the pots themselves and keep them in the same position.

 

[lgibbs28]

If the pictures you show are recently done I would not worry too much. it is clear that the the tree is not very happy, but there sure is hope. It might loose some branches but this is not the end of the world as I can see. I have no clue what could have gone wrong. The other lodgepole pines of that batch are all fine.

I would be nice to the tree, water it well and feed it a little every ten days or more frequently. When the temperatures get into the eighties I would place the tree in half shade . By the end of August then it should go back into full sun. Please don't do any styling at all until the tree looks happy again.

I haven’t done any styling and dont plan to for at least a couple of years. I’ll keep up the feeding regimen and watering and hopefully it will bounce back. Thanks.

 

[lgibbs28]

How often do you move the pot? More than once a season might count as a 'major root disturbance'.
Fabric doesn't keep its shape very well. You might disturb the roots more than the tree likes by simply moving the pot; since the fabric moves, the entire soil shifts with it. I tried to tackle this issue by placing fabric pots on trays, so I don't have to touch the pots themselves and keep them in the same position.

The grow pots hold their shape really well since they’re filled with soil... and I have 6 other trees in the same kind of pots all doing fine. Granted they are different species, but they don’t seem to mind the pot choice.

 

[Vance Wood]

If you are keeping or moving this tree indoors that is the probable source of your problem. Walter's response seems to answer the question you did not answer, the tree came from him. This tells me the tree is has been very well kept and acclimated in the nursery he is associated with in Pennsylvania, I have been there and they know what they are doing.

 

[rockm]

I know they can handle the cold here but I wasn’t sure of how protected it had been prior to purchasing it and just wanted to be safe. We have had drastic temperature changes in the last couple weeks and months. Thanks for the input... hopefully it bounces back.

I haven’t done any styling and dont plan to for at least a couple of years. I’ll keep up the feeding regimen and watering and hopefully it will bounce back. Thanks.

Wouldn't keep feeding the tree until it shows signs of recovery. You may be contributing to its issues...

 

[Housguy]

Good luck, I love mine. When I collected mine a few years ago I never moved it from a partly shaded area for over a year and once it started showing signs of growth, I moved it into the sun and it is flourishing now. I hope it comes back for you!!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The grow pots hold their shape really well since they’re filled with soil... and I have 6 other trees in the same kind of pots all doing fine. Granted they are different species, but they don’t seem to mind the pot choice.

I thought exactly the same until I lost half of my JBP and scots pines after moving the fabric pots. A slight change of angle means the soil will move after every watering for the next few weeks. To me it's minor movement, but the shifting soil rips the roots apart. I'm pretty good with physics but I haven't been able to beat gravity ;-)
Good luck with the recovery!

 

[Vance Wood]

I thought exactly the same until I lost half of my JBP and scots pines after moving the fabric pots. A slight change of angle means the soil will move after every watering for the next few weeks. To me it's minor movement, but the shifting soil rips the roots apart. I'm pretty good with physics but I haven't been able to beat gravity ;-)
Good luck with the recovery!

If you are talking about grow bags I can see where that would be a problem, but pond baskets or other screen sided devices this is not at all true. I have used the screen sided device pictured in my avatar since I invented it back in the late 80"s and what you are claiming is simple untrue. Something else may be going on but it is not moving the tree unless it is moved into an are where you have been using some sort of herbicide.

 

[lgibbs28]

If you are keeping or moving this tree indoors that is the probable source of your problem. Walter's response seems to answer the question you did not answer, the tree came from him. This tells me the tree is has been very well kept and acclimated in the nursery he is associated with in Pennsylvania, I have been there and they know what they are doing.

The tree is kept outdoors, it’s been outdoors 24/7 for at least a month. It was only moved indoors a few times immediately after being brought home during drastic drops in temperature. Maybe that’s the issue, I don’t know, but it has not been a constant back and forth shuffle over the last 3 months between indoor and outdoor.

 

[wireme]

Hi everyone.
I purchased this lodgepole pine a couple months back. I moved it indoors on nights when it was supposed to get below 40 F here just to be safe after purchasing it. It was collected this past year, so the only thing I did was prune a few branches (under the eyes of Walter Pall) and then place it into a bigger pot without disturbing the roots or doing any rootwork. I just assumed it was shedding older needles at first, but today I saw that some of the new growth had browned and declined. I don’t believe overwatering is an issue, the soil drains readily and the pot is a fabric grow pot. Any ideas/should I be concerned? Thanks-
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Just curious, why did you place it into a larger pot, was that recommended to you when you got it? What did you see for roots at that time?
Try to be sure that when you water you water thoroughly and for long enough that the core gets hydrated. Sometimes the interior core of mountain soil will dehydrate when surrounded with substrate, water just flows around. Watering as normal most of the time but with an extra long and deep watering every ten days or so can be a good strategy.

 

[Walter Pall]

Now I read that you planted it into a larger pot. Really That's about the worst thing you could do. This tree should have been left in the small pot for a few years. Trees DO NOT grow better in larger pots. They grow worse. Th is proven scientifically. Every repotting is a risk. A tree that was collected only twelve months ago must be left alone a few years. They tree was in pure pumice. This is the best substrate as we can see on thousands of collected trees every day.
Why in the world would you think that you are doing him a favor? Why in the world are you second guessing the choice of container of experts who work with thousands of trees?

 

[Meh]

If you are talking about grow bags I can see where that would be a problem, but pond baskets or other screen sided devices this is not at all true.

it appears to be potted in a grow bag:

 

[lgibbs28]

Now I read that you planted it into a larger pot. Really That's about the worst thing you could do. This tree should have been left in the small pot for a few years. Trees DO NOT grow better in larger pots. They grow worse. Th is proven scientifically. Every repotting is a risk. A tree that was collected only twelve months ago must be left alone a few years. They tree was in pure pumice. This is the best substrate as we can see on thousands of collected trees every day.
Why in the world would you think that you are doing him a favor? Why in the world are you second guessing the choice of container of experts who work with thousands of trees?

I wasn’t trying to second guess the potting, the tree had several roots coming out of the pumice so I placed it into another pot. I made a mistake apparently and I’ll just have to see if I can remedy it. I’ll continue to try and take care of it.