Maple on Rock

Nishant

Shohin
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Hello Friends,

I live in London and after trying quite a few attempts to create something in a matter of one year, I realized that it always takes at least three-four years to build something eye-catching.

Honestly, I do not have so much patience, at the moment, as I am very keen on seeing something really fantastic in my garden, something which I can see over and over again. But those kind of bonsai come very expensive.

So another thing I had been thinking of creating is buy a not so master-piece Bonsai from internet and try getting the tree on a rock. That will make it more beautiful and satisfy me as well.

So just wondering, how easy/difficult it will be. I am planning to buy trident maple ( a german wholeseller on ebay ) and remove the soil and place the roots on a rock. Come spring, the roots would settle down on their new environment.

Please advise on this approach of mine.

Thanks
Nishant
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
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So Impatient....

I would try to find a lot of barerooted Elm seedlings and try to find one or 2 that may work for your.....

What rock?

I believe thats the fastest/easiest way to a pleasing ROR.
Or ficus cuttings.

Rock pics?

The maple sounds too far along.

Sorce
 

choppychoppy

Chumono
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Hello Friends,

I live in London and after trying quite a few attempts to create something in a matter of one year, I realized that it always takes at least three-four years to build something eye-catching.

Honestly, I do not have so much patience, at the moment, as I am very keen on seeing something really fantastic in my garden, something which I can see over and over again. But those kind of bonsai come very expensive.

So another thing I had been thinking of creating is buy a not so master-piece Bonsai from internet and try getting the tree on a rock. That will make it more beautiful and satisfy me as well.

So just wondering, how easy/difficult it will be. I am planning to buy trident maple ( a german wholeseller on ebay ) and remove the soil and place the roots on a rock. Come spring, the roots would settle down on their new environment.

Please advise on this approach of mine.

Thanks
Nishant

This is exactly the wrong way to create root over rock.

Impatientence will equal dissapointment.

Slow down.
 

leatherback

The Treedeemer
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I realized that it always takes at least three-four years to build something eye-catching.
I think you mistake years with decades... But have a look here: https://bonsainut.com/threads/your-greatest-transformation-in-one-years-time-go.31045/

If you do not have the patience nor the money.. You need to start working on one or the other. Otherwise you will remain unsatisfied.

A good root over rock is not easy. And also.. To get the roots to grasp the rock will take you a few years. .
 

0soyoung

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I don't think you really want to make bonsai @Nishant . I think you just want to look at one occasionally and then move on with your busy life. It is okay. I never had time for it until I was in my 60s.

There are 3 bonsai businesses in London, according to Google. Drop by any of them and take a peek when you need a fix. If you want to see more serious stuff, see if Peter Warren will let you in to see some of his bonsai at Saruyama. There's always the Kew Gardens; never been there myself.
 

Nishant

Shohin
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I don't think you really want to make bonsai @Nishant . I think you just want to look at one occasionally and then move on with your busy life. It is okay. I never had time for it until I was in my 60s.

There are 3 bonsai businesses in London, according to Google. Drop by any of them and take a peek when you need a fix. If you want to see more serious stuff, see if Peter Warren will let you in to see some of his bonsai at Saruyama. There's always the Kew Gardens; never been there myself.
Not exactly True. I do intend to make some. I have a Plum and Hawthorn collected this last summer that is in making.
I have two Mugo and a larch that I bought last year.

The two Mugo pines look great but I probably need a few more Bonsai in my garden. The more pictures of Bonsai I see, the more desperate it makes me to have some really pleasing ones in my garden, to make my morning worth getting up :)

Have stocked some money in my Paypal account. Will visit the all boot sales here in UK this year, next one in March in Birmingham.
 
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Zach Smith

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Not exactly True. I do intend to make some. I have a Plum and Hawthorn collected this last summer that is in making.
I have two Mugo and a larch that I bought last year.

The two Mugo pines look great but I probably need a few more Bonsai in my garden. The more pictures of Bonsai I see, the more desperate it makes me to have some really pleasing ones in my garden, to make my morning worth getting up :)

Have stocked some money in my Paypal account. Will visit the all boot sales here in UK this year, next one in March in Birmingham.
You can create showable bonsai in three years from your plum and hawthorn, provided you develop them properly. As for root over rock, it's a several year process and can't really be speeded up.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
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Hello Friends,

I live in London and after trying quite a few attempts to create something in a matter of one year, I realized that it always takes at least three-four years to build something eye-catching.

Honestly, I do not have so much patience, at the moment, as I am very keen on seeing something really fantastic in my garden, something which I can see over and over again. But those kind of bonsai come very expensive.

So another thing I had been thinking of creating is buy a not so master-piece Bonsai from internet and try getting the tree on a rock. That will make it more beautiful and satisfy me as well.

So just wondering, how easy/difficult it will be. I am planning to buy trident maple ( a german wholeseller on ebay ) and remove the soil and place the roots on a rock. Come spring, the roots would settle down on their new environment.

Please advise on this approach of mine.

Thanks
Nishant
Shoving a tree onto a rock makes for miserable looking root-on-rock bonsai. There are always big gaps and stiff looking roots on such trees. Those faults cannot be corrected. Good root-on-rock bonsai are created with thin saplings, whose roots are pliable and bent, wired and strapped over a rock. The whole thing is then planted in the ground and the sapling allowed to grow unrestricted for years. The strapped roots conform to the rock, making it look natural. The top of the tree is repeated chopped back over the years to bring the apex down and form a ramified canopy close to the rock.

there are no great shortcuts to this process. People think they can make a root-on-rock bonsai simply by jamming a larger tree onto a rock. Won't work and they wind up ugly.
 

Gsquared

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Sounds like you are needing some guidance on this project. Forgive me if I am being overly didactic. I've done a number of root over rock bonsai, and it is not an overnight process and much more involved that just plunking a tree down on a rock. If you do that, the tree will most assuredly die. If you live in London, i'm guessing space is at a premium. I lived in a San Francisco for many years and didn't have a good place to ground grow trees. This is how I did mine with moderate success.

First and most importantly, pick a good rock. You can make changes in the tree, but the rock is always going to be the rock. Something interesting with crevasses is good. Second the rock should be fairly hard, skip sandstone or anything too crumbly. The tree should be fairly young. A 2-3 year old trident sapling would work. try to find one with a little movement in the trunk. When you choose your day to do the initial root work, give yourself plenty of time and have things ready. Roots can dry out, so be ready with a pot, soil, a good sized piece of screen, landscapers tape, mister, tools, wire etc. I had the best luck with using a cylinder of plastic screen that was large enough to encircle the entire rock. (Roughly the size of the pot and as tall as the rock.) You can use the type of screen that you'd use for covering drain holes. Don't plant it in a bonsai pot. Use a colander, a pond basket, or large terra-cotta pot. The good news is that you got a trident, which are great for root over rock because they havevigorous roots. Start by bare rooting the tree. Keep the roots long and choose where you are planning in placing the tree on the rock. Drape the roots in a natural, and interesting flow around the rock surface and hold them in place by using landscaping tie down tape. You know, the ugly green type. Make sure that the tips of the roots don't get covered with tape, you'll want those to grow down into the pot. When the tree is tied on to the rock to your satisfaction, plant it into the pot a little deeper than you want the final composition. Put your screen around the rock and tree, with plenty of room to spare on all sides. I usually did my cylinder of screen about the same as the diameter of the pot and tall enough to go and few cm below the soil surface all the way up base of the trunk. Covering the rock, roots and all. Use a loose, fast draining medium. Treat it as a new transplant and let is grow without any trimming for a full season. It would be best to just let is grow for a year, but if you are in a gut-busting rush, and if the growth is vigorous after a few months, vigorous, not just okay, you might start removing a little of the soil from the screened part, say, no more than 20% of the height of the entire screen. If the roots look strong and have thickened, leave it off. Repeat the process, a 6-8 weeks later, but keep an eye on the roots you expose. Easy does it. Slow and steady progress. If all goes well, you may have the roots uncovered halfway by the end of the season, maybe more. Trident maple roots grow fast, but they are kind of succulent when they are new. It takes a while for them to get sufficient bark to grow out in the open air. It is better to let the roots stay covered if you are not sure. If you leave them covered, they will grow faster.

The trees I grew like this are nice enough root over rock, they would be much better if I had ground grown them, but this way you can do it in pots. I eventually sold them all off except one.

I always made my root over rock trees with smaller air layers that had been off the parent tree for a year or more. If I was planning to use a layer for this kind of design, I would grow it is a taller pot so the roots got long and grew downward.

There are several books that demonstrate this way of doing the style, so look around to see what you can find before you start. There was a great article in Bonsai Today several years ago. You might be able to find that one and get a good tutorial. Good luck.
 

Nishant

Shohin
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Sounds like you are needing some guidance on this project. Forgive me if I am being overly didactic. I've done a number of root over rock bonsai, and it is not an overnight process and much more involved that just plunking a tree down on a rock. If you do that, the tree will most assuredly die. If you live in London, i'm guessing space is at a premium. I lived in a San Francisco for many years and didn't have a good place to ground grow trees. This is how I did mine with moderate success. First and most importantly, pick a good rock. You can make changes in the tree, but the rock is always going to be the rock. Something interesting with crevasses is good. Second the rock should be fairly hard, skip sandstone or anything too crumbly. The tree should be fairly young. A 2-3 year old trident sapling would work. try to find one with a little movement in the trunk. When you choose your day to do the initial root work, give yourself plenty of time and have things ready. Roots can dry out, so be ready with a pot, soil, a good sized piece of screen, landscapers tape, mister, tools, wire etc. I had the best luck with using a cylinder of plastic screen that was large enough to encircle the entire rock. (Roughly the size of the pot and as tall as the rock.) You can use the type of screen that you'd use for covering drain holes. Don't plant it in a bonsai pot. Use a colander, a pond basket, or large terra-cotta pot. The good news is that you got a trident, which are great for root over rock because they havevigorous roots. Start by bare rooting the tree. Keep the roots long and choose where you are planning in placing the tree on the rock. Drape the roots in a natural, and interesting flow around the rock surface and hold them in place by using landscaping tie down tape. You know, the ugly green type. Make sure that the tips of the roots don't get covered with tape, you'll want those to grow down into the pot. When the tree is tied on to the rock to your satisfaction, plant it into the pot a little deeper than you want the final composition. Put your screen around the rock and tree, with plenty of room to spare on all sides. I usually did my cylinder of screen about the same as the diameter of the pot and tall enough to go and few cm below the soil surface all the way up base of the trunk. Covering the rock, roots and all. Use a loose, fast draining medium. Treat it as a new transplant and let is grow without any trimming for a full season. It would be best to just let is grow for a year, but if you are in a gut-busting rush, and if the growth is vigorous after a few months, vigorous, not just okay, you might start removing a little of the soil from the screened part, say, no more than 20% of the height of the entire screen. If the roots look strong and have thickened, leave it off. Repeat the process, a 6-8 weeks later, but keep an eye on the roots you expose. Easy does it. Slow and steady progress. If all goes well, you may have the roots uncovered halfway by the end of the season, maybe more. Trident maple roots grow fast, but they are kind of succulent when they are new. It takes a while for them to get sufficient bark to grow out in the open air. It is better to let the roots stay covered if you are not sure. If you leave them covered, they will grow faster. The trees I grew like this are nice enough root over rock, they would be much better if I had ground grown them, but this way you can do it in pots. I eventually sold them all off except one. I always made my root over rock trees with smaller air layers that had been off the parent tree for a year or more. If I was planning to use a layer for this kind of design, I would grow it is a taller pot so the roots got long and grew downward. There are several books that demonstrate this way of doing the style, so look around to see what you can find before you start. There was a great article in Bonsai Today several years ago. You might be able to find that one and get a good tutorial. Good luck.
 

Nishant

Shohin
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Hello Gsquared, Many Thanks for your input. It is definitely good and encouraging. I am a bit impatiently waiting for spring to arrive so that will set up air layer in privet and pyracantha and then as you said, get them growing in a long planter to encourage longer roots. I will keep posting my progress on this thread.
 
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