My Great Basin bristlecone pine (Pinus longaeva) Experiment

[Potawatomi13]

dont they keep their needles for years? wonder how you would work around that in bonsai.

CAN keep as long as 40 years. Under easier captive conditions will not keep as long after adapting. Time/patience required. Pulling needles stupid bad idea. Destroys natural habit of tree. Pumice is personal substrate. Damp substrate. NOT dry! Just do not overwater. Once desired trunk size reached directional pruning aided by some wiring where needles already fallen should work best. These back bud pretty well.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Reason for grafting is once you have bristle cone growing. Scion young shoot from BC very low graft ( so nebori will eventually hide the graft ) root stock something that will thrive and grow vigorously in more nutrient Rich soil this is why the Japanese graft white pine to black pine root stock increase vigor from black roots and stronger green colour foliage JWP on native roots Foliage is not as dark green and turns somewhat yellow in winter and grows slower I do not know what exactly you can graft to what but am thinking Pinus strobes North American pine rootstock ( 5 needle pine and one of the fastest growing pines

They do just fine on own roots. No junk tree rootstock needed! Too fast growth only begets longer internodes.

 

[Potawatomi13]

"The high elevation plants not just these trees suffer at lower elevations "

These do well at lower elevations(500' here)as long as not too high humidity or too warm Winters.

 

[MaciekA]

Agree with the above three comments from @Potawatomi13 . Bristlecone does well at normal elevations if kept in full sun and potted in pumice or lava or something similar that keeps the roots from getting soggy and optimizes for particle longevity to reduce frequency of repots. I don't think it needs to be on different root stock when so many Oregon-grown ones are clearly doing well on their own roots. @Antony82 is in a colder zone, it's possible the native roots of this species are much better suited for a cold winter than JBP ones. Bristlecone may be snow covered during winter in some areas, but it also has to survive very low temperatures in quite arid environments too which means root insulation isn't always there. Its own native root stock may be the way to go.

I think it's worth considering that bristlecone eventually develops some wonderful deadwood, it's not just the foliage that is interesting. If someone wants to have continuity between a bit of exposed root and a deadwood-heavy twisty trunk, grafting is going to close off those opportunities.

 

[Antony82]

CAN keep as long as 40 years. Under easier captive conditions will not keep as long after adapting. Time/patience required. Pulling needles stupid bad idea. Destroys natural habit of tree. Pumice is personal substrate. Damp substrate. NOT dry! Just do not overwater. Once desired trunk size reached directional pruning aided by some wiring where needles already fallen should work best. These back bud pretty well.

Do you know how much I should actually water this thing currently I’m spraying it like five times once a day and once a week I give it an actual cup of water. I know they don’t need a lot of water but I want to give them the most as I can without overwatering so it grows a little quicker?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Do you know how much I should actually water this thing currently I’m spraying it like five times once a day and once a week I give it an actual cup of water. I know they don’t need a lot of water but I want to give them the most as I can without overwatering so it grows a little quicker?

Where you at? Wetting foliage bad idea. What is trees substrate? H2O needed depends largely on this.

 

[MaciekA]

Do you know how much I should actually water this thing currently I’m spraying it like five times once a day and once a week I give it an actual cup of water. I know they don’t need a lot of water but I want to give them the most as I can without overwatering so it grows a little quicker?

Always water everything, whether seedlings, bonsai, pre-bonsai, whatever, completely thoroughly until water exits the bottom of a container. Don't mist or spray at all. Misting is just going to inhibit transpiration if the foliage is persistently coated with water. With conifers, avoid that. Enable as much breathing and cycling of water out of the roots and out to foliage as possible

Control moisture in your pots through:

- Spacing out your waterings farther apart. Let the soil decrease in moisture somewhat before coming in for another round of watering. Don't schedule, instead always look for feedback from the tree. As the seedlings get more and more established and get more needle surface area, they will begin demanding more water and will tell you how much to hasten the watering cycle (by drying out the soil faster).
- If soil is too moisture retentive and you just want a quick fix: Make the soil mass taller by tipping the tray/containers at an angle, or strain-bobbing it after waterings like a strainer of washed rice (quick way to yank the excess out through dripping).
- If soil is too moisture retentive overall and you want to promote faster water/O2 cycling: Increase air flow past the seedlings
- If soil is too moisture retentive AND you have significant foilage growth / accelerating foliage mass: Increase sun exposure. Get em outside at that point

If you want a good mental reference / physical analogy for the ideal moisture level in the soil of bonsai soils / pine, go grab a sponge, completely soak it to saturation, then squeeze excess moisture out of it. The sponge is still completely moist, but airy and moist at the same time. Pine grows best when moisture is available in the soil, but when oxygen is also available in the soil. Pine grows worse when soil is persistently soggy (true for all tree species but moreso for pines).

 

[Frozentreehugger]

They do just fine on own roots. No junk tree rootstock needed! Too fast growth only begets longer internodes.

Thanks for the advice. Glad to hear they do fine on there own roots . Some people seem to think they will die eventually in bonsai culture from root rot . So pure inrorganic lots of light long repot time correct

 

[Potawatomi13]

Thanks for the advice. Glad to hear they do fine on there own roots . Some people seem to think they will die eventually in bonsai culture from root rot . So pure inrorganic lots of light long repot time correct

What inorganic? Means many things. Can get pumice? Full sun unless just being introduced to same. Like all plants can be killed by sunburn if suddenly too much or new exposure. Time between repots? It depends. How do sprouts fare currently?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Inorganic to me is rock . Volcanic rock products like Pumice and lava . Can be difficult to get here .( especially in quantity) My go to is crushed hard granite easy to source . Ph neutral rough shaped .sized by sifting . I use some oil absorbent ( fired clay ) for water retention . And moisture loving trees My pine mix normally is 60 percent rock 25 percent pine bark 15 percent absorbent .I use lava but have no development trees in it . For Bristle cone I was going to go pure granite . Maybe same pine 10 or 15 percent . I have some hemlock bark from a sawmil that is composting with a little manure . Some say it lasts longer and holds moisture better than pine . Will use grow box and or larger container for development . May try some in the ground but may not be winter hardi enough here . And best full sun here needs portability . Thanks for your posts . I’m a lot more encouraging . To hear you like it and have success . There is a lot of don’t bother slow growth long internodes and root rot Around thank you

 

[Potawatomi13]

Thanks for answer. Personal oldest Bristlecone just DRASTICALLY root pruned 2021 and potted in 100% pumice. If you had available would recommend as it has own H2O retention capability. Thankfully repot did well last year. Had been in large nursery pot with commercial Bonsai mix probably 50% organic and had pretty well consumed substrate in about 12-15 years. Pot filled almost completely with roots/no substrate left to speak of but not yet root bound. Thankfully. No root rot present. Really love this tree. If using large grow container can dig in finger away from tree roots to see if needing H2O. Check to depth about 3/4 inch.

 

[Antony82]

Just thought this be a good thread to document my journey over the long haul with others also trying to grow and care for one of these ancient mountain pines in conditions not found in nature. I'm sure if we work together and share ideas we stand a better chance at defying the odds. If worse comes to worst future prospects will learn from our mistakes.

Jan 31, 2022, Day 1 Got and Soaked 6 seeds
Day 2, 3 sunk to the bottom and were planted
Jan 16, 2022: 1 Seed Sprouted! I'm a proud Papa!
Feb 20, 2022, Discovered Air pruning Benefits
Feb 22, 2022, They mature so quickly!

More to come! Not sure If I can continue to edit the original post or not so newcomers can get the full story...

 

[Antony82]

Just thought this be a good thread to document my journey over the long haul with others also trying to grow and care for one of these ancient mountain pines in conditions not found in nature. I'm sure if we work together and share ideas we stand a better chance at defying the odds. If worse comes to worst future prospects will learn from our mistakes.

Jan 31, 2022, Day 1 Got and Soaked 6 seeds
Day 2, 3 sunk to the bottom and were planted
Jan 16, 2022: 1 Seed Sprouted! I'm a proud Papa!
Feb 20, 2022, Discovered Air pruning Benefits
Feb 22, 2022, They mature so quickly!

More to come! Not sure If I can continue to edit the original post or not so newcomers can get the full story...

Just thought this be a good thread to document my journey over the long haul with others also trying to grow and care for one of these ancient mountain pines in conditions not found in nature. I'm sure if we work together and share ideas we stand a better chance at defying the odds. If worse comes to worst future prospects will learn from our mistakes.

Jan 31, 2022, Day 1 Got and Soaked 6 seeds
Day 2, 3 sunk to the bottom and were planted
Jan 16, 2022: 1 Seed Sprouted! I'm a proud Papa!
Feb 20, 2022, Discovered Air pruning Benefits
Feb 22, 2022, They mature so quickly!

More to come! Not sure If I can continue to edit the original post or not so newcomers can get the full story...

Just thought this be a good thread to document my journey over the long haul with others also trying to grow and care for one of these ancient mountain pines in conditions not found in nature. I'm sure if we work together and share ideas we stand a better chance at defying the odds. If worse comes to worst future prospects will learn from our mistakes.

Jan 31, 2022, Day 1 Got and Soaked 6 seeds
Day 2, 3 sunk to the bottom and were planted
Jan 16, 2022: 1 Seed Sprouted! I'm a proud Papa!
Feb 20, 2022, Discovered Air pruning Benefits
Feb 22, 2022, They mature so quickly!

More to come! Not sure If I can continue to edit the original post or not so newcomers can get the full story...

 

[Antony82]

5-6-22 it’s steam has turned red and has 3 sets of needles. 13 needles total I think. I planted the rest but a bad windstorm killed them while they were very young. I still water them but it seems like they’re very dead. So this may be my only Bristlecone. I’m not really planning to get any more atm, I’ll probably go with something more ornamental and-or acclimated to my environment zone 5a, but I do plan to keep posting pics every now and then, long as I and this pine are alive and able.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I planted the rest but a bad windstorm killed them while they were very young

Aaaaarrrrrgh!

I still water them

Good.

---

Pinus longaeva is intolerant of shade. Harsh environmental conditions of its natural habitat cause it to grow very slowly, such that individuals of this species are among the oldest trees in the world, some aged up to 5000 years. USDA Hardiness Zone 4–5.

Pinus longaeva - Trees and Shrubs Online​

Should be fine your area.

 

[Antony82]

Aaaaarrrrrgh!


Good.

---

Pinus longaeva is intolerant of shade. Harsh environmental conditions of its natural habitat cause it to grow very slowly, such that individuals of this species are among the oldest trees in the world, some aged up to 5000 years. USDA Hardiness Zone 4–5.

Pinus longaeva - Trees and Shrubs Online​

Should be fine your area.

Yeah I’m pretty sure only thing different from other pine species is it doesn’t do well with others. But if you look at them in their native environment looks it can handle being a bonsai just fine.

 

[Emanon]

Look at the shoots on the one in this video:

And that's in Wyoming. In Oregon they can rev up quite nicely. Underappreciated species. Density/budding is excellent, bark is awesome-looking.

Super annoying but the guy in the video you posted doesn't identify the specific species of tree he is talking about! I would assume he's talking about Pinus aristata (a tree different from the one mentioned in this thread by the OP)? Obviously P. aristata is much much much more common and I've never come across anyone that has had much difficulty in containerizing it for years -- at least not when compared to P. longaeva.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Super annoying but the guy in the video you posted doesn't identify the specific species of tree he is talking about! I would assume he's talking about Pinus aristata (a tree different from the one mentioned in this thread by the OP)? Obviously P. aristata is much much much more common and I've never come across anyone that has had much difficulty in containerizing it for years -- at least not when compared to P. longaeva.

Actually if noticing the white specks on needles it is the ID factor for aristata. Had thought he pointed that out. Cultivation for longaeva is same as 5 with me doing great under same conditions.

 

[Bavarian Raven]

Started a batch myself last year. Nine sprouted. Seven survived until fall (2021). They’re just waking up now. Best of luck.

 

[Yosemite Goat]

Thanks for answer. Personal oldest Bristlecone just DRASTICALLY root pruned 2021 and potted in 100% pumice. If you had available would recommend as it has own H2O retention capability. Thankfully repot did well last year. Had been in large nursery pot with commercial Bonsai mix probably 50% organic and had pretty well consumed substrate in about 12-15 years. Pot filled almost completely with roots/no substrate left to speak of but not yet root bound. Thankfully. No root rot present. Really love this tree. If using large grow container can dig in finger away from tree roots to see if needing H2O. Check to depth about 3/4 inch.

Do you have photos of your process?

I am tempted to buy a large nursery tree that has back budded and start prepping for shallower potting and eventually deadwood.