My procumbens cascade with browning tips

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
I don't usually post help threads for insect damage, but it's been a month or so since I sprayed
Malathion or insecticidal soap. I alternate between the 2.

Just yesterday I noticed an overall evenly distributed amount of browning tips.
Did the white paper test last night, got nothing but a single black bug 1/16" long
that may've been segmented similar to but not an ant. Got the same today and one suspect
that was not moving that smeared a red streak. Nothing to write home about, pretty clean.
No webbing or residues/signs of scale either that I've found, no visible scale yet.
DSC_6270.JPG
So overall it appears to be in great health and balanced ready to be thinned and wired.
DSC_6267.JPGDSC_6268.JPG
Get in for a closer look and not so healthy looking, because this happened in the last 3 or 4 days.

Next is the only other juniper I have with any tip issues. A shimpaku. Nothing moves on the paper but does
have mite sized specs that smear an off green colour. Had a green smear or two on the cascade too
so I'll hit everything with malathion this evening if the wind is calm. In the meantime I'm bringing the hose
around to the deck and blast everything on shower setting
DSC_6271.JPG

Are there any conifers, JM or crabapples that are sensitive to malathion? I've never had issues using it on my JWP.
It really bothers me that this is so evenly distributed throughout all the foliage on the cascade except on the back side
in a bunch of juvenile foliage. It is almost untouched by whatever this is.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
31,843
Reaction score
43,739
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
I'm reading it's everywhere except a "protected" part of the cascade?

That makes me think sun but that's kinda no.

Maybe cold?

Worst tip blight.

But I think it's just an excessive amount of foliage.

It's just...."trimming it's nails".

Sorce
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
7,830
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
This could be a fungus, in which case what you have treated it with so far wont do anything as those treatments are for insects.

It could be tip blight which is a fungus. General treatment is to cut away the brown tips and treat with a fungicide. I would do that before it gets worse
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
This could be a fungus, in which case what you have treated it with so far wont do anything as those treatments are for insects.

It could be tip blight which is a fungus. General treatment is to cut away the brown tips and treat with a fungicide. I would do that before it gets worse
Oh no that doesn't sound good. I have sprayed with copper once this year when I hit my pines same time.
I'm past due for that, but do you realize you're talking about 80-85% of the growth tips here?
What I have done is bring health back into this after it balked at my potting it up the year after a good thinning
March in 2018. I thought I might lose the plant. Vigour had returned last Summer and haven't been able to do
crap with a back injury, so the excess foliage is purposeful leading into a new thinning and wiring.
If I remove all those auxin producing growth tips now, there's probably enough energy reserve to produce
good new growth.

I would like to get @Leo in N E Illinois eyes on this and see if he agrees with a fungus.
I did use Bonide Infuse granules maybe a month ago on all my projects, then MicroMax in the last 10 days.
So I've done a 2 or 3 part anti fungal treatment (Infuse granules, Phyton27, maybe Daconil too), have used Neem oil, Malathion
and Insecticidal soap. I should not be at this crossroad I know I have not over done spraying for the health of the plant.
These sprays began in late February early March after it started warming up in a relaxed schedule not too close to each other.
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
7,830
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
Oh no that doesn't sound good. I have sprayed with copper once this year when I hit my pines same time.
I'm past due for that, but do you realize you're talking about 80-85% of the growth tips here?
What I have done is bring health back into this after it balked at my potting it up the year after a good thinning
March in 2018. I thought I might lose the plant. Vigour had returned last Summer and haven't been able to do
crap with a back injury, so the excess foliage is purposeful leading into a new thinning and wiring.
If I remove all those auxin producing growth tips now, there's probably enough energy reserve to produce
good new growth.

I would like to get @Leo in N E Illinois eyes on this and see if he agrees with a fungus.
I did use Bonide Infuse granules maybe a month ago on all my projects, then MicroMax in the last 10 days.
So I've done a 2 or 3 part anti fungal treatment (Infuse granules, Phyton27, maybe Daconil too), have used Neem oil, Malathion
and Insecticidal soap. I should not be at this crossroad I know I have not over done spraying for the health of the plant.
These sprays began in late February early March after it started warming up in a relaxed schedule not too close to each other.


By all means, lets get a second opinion. However from what I read, most tip blight once it has manifested in the tip as you see there, wont respond to treatment (hence the recommendation to prune them off). The fungicide prevents it getting into the plant to begin with. Trimming the tips helps to keep it from spreading.

I had something similar on some of my shimpaku last year and that is how I treated it

However I admit I am not an expert so would also like to see what others say.
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
Maybe cold?

Worst tip blight.

But I think it's just an excessive amount of foliage.

It's just...."trimming it's nails".
Cold - You're not going to believe this, but when the hard freezes hit after initial Spring growth started
I frequently included this juniper in my two step with the maples to keep the head of steam up.
I brought it and my Hinokis into our unheated uninsulated sunroom over night, Hinokis mostly during
cold drying wind forecasts.

Tip blight - I hope you're wrong. Please be wrong.

The abundance of foliage is as described above replying to Paradox
and any nail trimming it would've done on its own would've been interiorly.
I was going to wait till Summer to thin and wire it out some, maybe I should begin now
which would remove a good number of the affected growth tips alone.
I've never done this in Spring, is that ok you think to start now?
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
7,830
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
Some thinning would be fine now. I would not wire. Ive lost branches on a juniper from wiring and bending branches in the spring.

I do not believe this is from cold and trees dont "nail trim" growing branches
Something is causing it.

.
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
By all means, lets get a second opinion. However from what I read, most tip blight once it has manifested in the tip as you see there, wont respond to treatment (hence the recommendation to prune them off). The fungicide prevents it getting into the plant to begin with. Trimming the tips helps to keep it from spreading.

I had something similar on some of my shimpaku last year and that is how I treated it

However I admit I am not an expert so would also like to see what others say.
Bless you for trying to help :)

Since I sprayed it this evening with malathion I wont be getting my hands into it tomorrow
but certainly will give it a generous dose of fish emulsion and Super Thrive tomorrow.
That should give me time to get started (won't finish by any means) on some removal
(thinning) and a little bit of wire. I have needle cast on all my 2 needle pines I think.
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
Some thinning would be fine now. I would not wire. Ive lost branches on a juniper from wiring and bending branches in the spring.

I do not believe this is from cold and trees dont "nail trim" growing branches
Ok no wire, but some thinning. Dang, some thinning wont cut it though with 80-85% coverage on the tips.
I will start the Anti fungal 3 way rotation ASAP but having just used malathion, a week maybe?
Granules in a day or two maybe then spray in 10 days would be my ASAP plan then rotating.
That Phyton27 is really good stuff, I should not be in this predicament.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
31,843
Reaction score
43,739
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
any nail trimming it would've done on its own would've been interiorly.

I think this may seem so only because of how in bonsai, we always talk about opening the canopy to keep the interior from dying.

I believe it would be a completely different mechanism that makes the tree ditch this external foilage.

It's also an unnatural situation we create bunching this foliage in the first place, which may actually be the very thing that leads to this what we don't see too often, an external nail trimming.

I wouldn't worry so much about fungus, especially not with such a healthy plant.

I have tip blight on my ERC's and a couple blue rugs, they should have died but they won't.

You got a long way before worry!

I'll shoot you pics tomorrow!

Sorce
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
Found another procumbens with the same, beginning in the apex only ATM
DSC_6280.JPG
I know there's a lot of background static in the picture it's the 2 pics that follow that count.
This is just to show the overall health of the plant and in good soil for a couple years.
DSC_6281.JPGDSC_6288.JPG
I cut the apex out which amounts to nothing compared to the cascade.
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
@sorce here's the back side with the juvi foliage. How convenient is that?:)
A little bit of it is affected but most not. This is one of the trees I have been trying to get
you to make a pot for, and it is ready as we speak, or was, now this.
DSC_6282.JPG
DSC_6283.JPG

next
DSC_6284.JPGDSC_6285.JPGDSC_6286.JPG
as you can see the lower apex doesn't need thinning particularly, not much anyway, yet it is equally affected.
I've not even as much as done any Spring clean up or under side clean up at all beyond any flower petals
from the bloomin cherry and Bradford pear trees.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
31,843
Reaction score
43,739
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
ready as we speak, or was, now this.

No worries! I think it's healthy enough to rebound well, you certainly found it early enough.

Speaking of pots....

Might get some paperwork done tonight with the owner of this house, if things go well, soon I will have peace of mind and my actual own space to really ramp up work.

I know I have a lot of folks I have half promises to out there....bout to make em full and fulfilled!

Sorce
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
31,843
Reaction score
43,739
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Sorry for both the delay and the crap shots...but the idea is there!

The erc in all peril and it's good and bad tips.

20210427_181515.jpg
20210427_181531.jpg
20210427_181523.jpg

This one, note the extremely poor health from the small pot and miscare already, still good...
20210427_181610.jpg

Kinda! That's the only green!
20210427_181614.jpg

Even this one got neglected, isolated though, and unfertilized last year, it "bounced back" like a good chef in Hell's Kitchen. (I hate that phrase)

20210427_181649.jpg

No Frigging worries!

Sorce
 

Housguy

Chumono
Messages
617
Reaction score
1,711
Location
Chino Hills, CA
USDA Zone
10a
Beautiful trees!! I get those dying tips on my nana sometimes as well, it doesn't bother me and has never led to any significant decline, trees just push through and grows new tips below the dead tip.
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
This isn't the banded oval right?
You remembered. The bands and nails. Now that's an idea I've never seen on a cascade pot.
I certainly would not pass that up. Would be pretty awesome.DSC_6303.JPG
@sorce you're onto something here. I never thought about this style on a cascade pot but I like the idea and certainly
would not pass up an original as such. I just noticed there's a couple nails missing on this pot I bought at
the Monastery in Conyers, GA I suspect Winter damage. MicroMax granules turned the moss blooms rust coloured.
Any way sent you a PM so now have several ideas to go with, but I like the bands and nails :cool::cool:
Beautiful trees!! I get those dying tips on my nana sometimes as well, it doesn't bother me and has never led to any significant decline, trees just push through and grows new tips below the dead tip.
Thank you! That's a bit of a breather. I think the fish emulsion has always provided the best flush of vigour
in my trees, better than MiracleGro, and hope it helps push past this.
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
7,830
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
I am surprised that neither Adair nor Brian have responded.........

@Dav4? You have seen tip blight before can you give this a positive ID?
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
4,858
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
it "bounced back" like a good chef in Hell's Kitchen. (I hate that phrase)

20210427_181649.jpg


No Frigging worries!
You the blue rug man, man. :)
I hate the show Hells Kitchen. I have enough stress at work all day.
No worries, I know, but I'm a worry wort and I pride myself in the vitality my juniper carry over
from the previous year without browning out. Very little dead foliage ever to clean out,
so this, being spread about the entire foliage has me as worried as its last repot where it took a
year hiatus from growing. Stalled it did.
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom