Native Juniper, Mystery of the East U.S.
- Thread starter TN_Jim
- Start date
I did the samething, looking at tons of ERC that grow in New England with all sorts of deadwood characteristics to play with. I did some homework and found they are not always accepting of bonsai tech. and the main reason was they host andor carrier of the Apple rust fungus. I wouldn't want to deal with that and possibly have it affect other trees. Furthermore, there are apple farms all over and wouldn't want to affect them either(far reaching possiblility, but still.) But to each his own...if one can make it work..power to ya.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Hay!
S
S
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Bjorn just did a demo on one of these at my club. I will say the demo material given to artists isn’t always great. This piece really had great features, just the wrong species. He didnt see the material until 20 minutes before the meeting. He noted that he had not worked with the species before and proceeded to crush the demo and churn out a really nice tree. That doesn’t mean it will improve or do well over time but it was cool to watch him work while telling awesome stories about his time in Japan. A really interesting guy for sure. It’s a shame these aren’t the best bonsai candidates.
TN_Jim
Omono
TN_Jim
Omono
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Raffled at end of demo...
choppychoppy
Chumono
Not a huge fan - all I've got. The big one is ok but the foliage is annoying. Maybe another one or two somewhere. Idk.
GGB
Masterpiece
Those example trees are exactly what I was talking about with the rugged/unfinished look. one coukld argue the foliage will never tighten up like it would on some other species. I can't add input there, other than that I believe them. But I still don't 100% know where all this information is coming from, in terms of t hem being hard to repot.
I can't offer much about the species like I said before, but I used to play with them when I first got into bonsai and never killed one.
On Sunday I stopped by my dad's house to mow his lawn and he had a 2 foot tall ERC growing in his landscape. I tore it up with bare hands and no tools. completely bare rooted, probably lost 70% of the root system. Threw it in a flooded trash can while I mowed his lawn and then brought it home and planted it in my lawn. That's more or less my protocol with these guys. I can provide a picture of the tree as proof but it's only been one week and it could still die. My point is just that there is a lot of misinformation about them. And at the absolute least they are abundant and hardy.
Oh and i do recognize that young trees handle this stuff better than older ones will but the one and only mature tree I did this with recovered just fine too
I can't offer much about the species like I said before, but I used to play with them when I first got into bonsai and never killed one.
On Sunday I stopped by my dad's house to mow his lawn and he had a 2 foot tall ERC growing in his landscape. I tore it up with bare hands and no tools. completely bare rooted, probably lost 70% of the root system. Threw it in a flooded trash can while I mowed his lawn and then brought it home and planted it in my lawn. That's more or less my protocol with these guys. I can provide a picture of the tree as proof but it's only been one week and it could still die. My point is just that there is a lot of misinformation about them. And at the absolute least they are abundant and hardy.
Oh and i do recognize that young trees handle this stuff better than older ones will but the one and only mature tree I did this with recovered just fine too
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
@sorce photo shows bad material poorly styled, but with somewhat evenly-distributed pads. Look at the base, the aerial root, the bar branches, lack of taper, and awkward curve which comprises the apex. Bjorn had to do something very similar with his material, but the execution was obviously better, forcing some taper and movement.
The problem with both is how ERC ultimately grow will destroy the styling in a couple years. ERC grows very strongly in 2 areas: crotches of branches and tips of branches. So, you end up with coarse tufts of unmanageable growth as branches split, and at the tips. If someone could figure out how to balance those tendencies (without keeping the tree in perpetual juvenile foliage), they may be able to advance the case for ERC. Then, it becomes a matter of finding specimens that aren’t phone poles.
I worked with ERC for several years when I first started in the 1990s. Here is one example. The first photo is a before and after shot from wiring. Instead of filling out, a year later, the tree had a bunch of Pom-poms, as shown in the second photo. The third photo was as tightened up as I could get it in year 3, but the foliage was still really coarse, juvenile, and Pom-poms.
Shimpakus won’t do you that way because their runners become branches with tufts of growth all along them; each of which can be trained into a fine tertiary branch with a nice tuft of foliage.
Here is another example, a rare find with an interesting trunk. Unfortunately, it did not survive the initial styling I did a year later.
The problem with both is how ERC ultimately grow will destroy the styling in a couple years. ERC grows very strongly in 2 areas: crotches of branches and tips of branches. So, you end up with coarse tufts of unmanageable growth as branches split, and at the tips. If someone could figure out how to balance those tendencies (without keeping the tree in perpetual juvenile foliage), they may be able to advance the case for ERC. Then, it becomes a matter of finding specimens that aren’t phone poles.
I worked with ERC for several years when I first started in the 1990s. Here is one example. The first photo is a before and after shot from wiring. Instead of filling out, a year later, the tree had a bunch of Pom-poms, as shown in the second photo. The third photo was as tightened up as I could get it in year 3, but the foliage was still really coarse, juvenile, and Pom-poms.
Shimpakus won’t do you that way because their runners become branches with tufts of growth all along them; each of which can be trained into a fine tertiary branch with a nice tuft of foliage.
Here is another example, a rare find with an interesting trunk. Unfortunately, it did not survive the initial styling I did a year later.
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Here is the before to give more credit to Bjorn’s styling game... more pics and a video at Long Island Bonsai Society Facebook page
GGB
Masterpiece
Thank you for the photos Brian. That's probably about enough to convince me just to stick with something like shimpaku. I'm glad you're speaking from experience. I'm always interested to hear that someone very talented gave a native a fair shake. Sometimes it's enough to spur me into action or anti-action.
In fact... If I'm not mistaken @Brian Van Fleet you're the reason I have pinus virginiana in my garden.
In fact... If I'm not mistaken @Brian Van Fleet you're the reason I have pinus virginiana in my garden.
Joe Dupre'
Omono
I fail to see the problem with juvenile foliage. I guess living in a low-lying swampy area most of my life, most any conifer is "cool". I happen to like the slightly unkempt look of ERC. Top quality show material? Probably not. A very welcome addition to MY bonsai garden? A resounding "YES". I don't concern myself with opinions on whether a tree is a "real" bonsai or not or whether it's show quality. I don't plan on putting any ERC in an awards based show. I may put one in my club show.................emphasis on "show"....................no awards, no judging...........just people coming in off the street to see some interesting trees.
Not saying my opinions are right...............just my opinions. Chocolate and vanilla, folks...........chocolate and vanilla.
Not saying my opinions are right...............just my opinions. Chocolate and vanilla, folks...........chocolate and vanilla.
Cosmos
Shohin
Most members of the juniperus family can host the fungus of the apple-cedar rust (I’ve had a small outbreak on a juniperus chinensis earlier this summer).
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
That really doesn’t look like ERC, but he did a good job with it. It would be interesting to see it again in 2 years.
Anymore, I avoid weighing in on topics with which I have no experience. And I’ll be the first to tell a newbie to grow what grows in your area. Bonsai is already tough, don’t make it harder by keeping a juniper inside or a ficus in Fargo.
The foliage itself isn’t a problem. The problem is the unpredictability, inconsistency, and challenge of training it. The larger the tree, the smaller the problem of juvenile vs. mature foliage on the same tree.
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
I wouldn’t know what ERC looks like as I haven’t really dealt with them. Bjorn did confirm the tag said juniperus virginiana, but it could have been mismarked as I know the source where it came from. If not ERC what do you think it could be. The raffle winner is among the more active club members so I would expect it to be well cared for. Maybe an update will be possible.
I was initially told he would get to work a RMJ, but this is what showed up at the meeting. It was a little disappointing. If I could have one wish it would be for big name artists to have a really good piece of material for the demo. Too often I find the material to be sub par.
GGB
Masterpiece
BVF for prez
IPA for VP
IPA for VP
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
It would be cool if you could get a snapshot of it in a year or two. Maybe it is ERC, but the foliage sure looked wispy. Hey, how are you posting now with a brand spanking new baby? Congrats, big daddy!
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Thank you sir! There is nothing that comes between me and my bnut fix!
