Need an indoor bonsai light set up recommendation.

[Kynewt]

Could somebody give me some set ups that they run and there plants are enjoying it. I have 6 plants. Hawaiian umbrella, 3 ficus, dwarf jade, and tamarind. All vary in size. I was originally going to go the LED route but am leaning towards building a T5 set up(easier on my eyes) Maybe go to home depot or something and make a rig? they all sit on a coffee table that is 48in L x 24inW. Was wondering if people could show me some pictures of there setups and pieces they use? I also was thinking about maybe adding the LED's for side lighting.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

The orchid folks, hydro and “Sun” shops have some of the very best. My wife used the T5 and predecessors for year, replaced them about once every 15 months, then got tired of that and we switched to LED lamps that fit in the T5 sockets . The light bill went down and she had a good blooming year.
You can start with Gardeners supply. They have some sturdy rigs we use. A bit pricey I think, yet my better half doesn’t think so!
@Leo in N E Illinois and more may have some more leads for you.
Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Paradox]

Buy a shop light from Home Depot and put daylight florescent bulbs in it.
I use such a set up for my Brazilain Rain trees and ficus during the winter.

My and ficus grow most of the winter under this set up.

 

[Balbs]

I used two of these last winter for jades, ficus, shefflera, bougainvillea. I put them in my basement so the temps got quite low, probably just under 60F in the middle of winter. That balance worked. The ficuses put on growth most of the winter. The jades did just okay. The bougainvillea was pretty unhappy. I’ll add to it this year but it was a fairly inexpensive setup with reasonable success.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Looks like you ended up going with SpiderFarmer SF-2000 which is a great choice.
Just to wrap this up for any future readers who are looking for grow lights I can offer some advice.
For tropical plants "shop lights" from the hardware store would be a very poor choice. They don't put out enough usable light (PAR) to do much at all for your plants. I learned the hard way by starting with those and couldn't figure out why my tropicals were doing so poorly. I ended up buying a quantum PAR meter and that made everything clear. The shop lights with grow bulbs were giving my plants 200 ppfd, which is similar to VERY weak indirect sunlight. I switched to strong LED lights (not the type you can buy at the hardware store, not the cheap amazon type) and now get 3,000ppfd, roughly 15x the usable photosynthetic light as the shop lights.
To summarize:
200 ppfd: T5 shop lights from home depot
3000 ppfd: LED lights from Amazon (Spider Farmer SF2000)
2,500 ppfd: Central California afternoon sun in summer

Especially for tropical plants it's very much worth avoiding shop lights.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Looks like you ended up going with SpiderFarmer SF-2000 which is a great choice.
Just to wrap this up for any future readers who are looking for grow lights I can offer some advice.
For tropical plants "shop lights" from the hardware store would be a very poor choice. They don't put out enough usable light (PAR) to do much at all for your plants. I learned the hard way by starting with those and couldn't figure out why my tropicals were doing so poorly. I ended up buying a quantum PAR meter and that made everything clear. The shop lights with grow bulbs were giving my plants 200 ppfd, which is similar to VERY weak indirect sunlight. I switched to strong LED lights (not the type you can buy at the hardware store, not the cheap amazon type) and now get 3,000ppfd, roughly 15x the usable photosynthetic light as the shop lights.
To summarize:
200 ppfd: T5 shop lights from home depot
3000 ppfd: LED lights from Amazon (Spider Farmer SF2000)
2,500 ppfd: Central California afternoon sun in summer

Especially for tropical plants it's very much worth avoiding shop lights.

WoW!
The price on these lights is plain crazy....

I got as high as amazon's 299.00 ekitty's 99.00 down to LingBaos 79.00! All appear to be the exact same model....

Do you think there's any reason not to grab a couple at the lowest price, or am I just missing something?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[cbrshadow23]

WoW!
The price on these lights is plain crazy....

I got as high as amazon's 299.00 ekitty's 99.00 down to LingBaos 79.00! All appear to be the exact same model....

Do you think there's any reason not to grab a couple at the lowest price, or am I just missing something?

Cheers
DSD sends

Looks like you're comparing the SF-1000 (amazon link) to the SF-1000 (both other links). The SF2000 is over twice as strong/bright.
I've never heard of ekitty's or LingBaos, but they do seem to be cheaper than Amazon, which is $179 for the SF-1000.

I don't think the price for these is anything crazy though. It's the best efficiency LED's available, top of the line driver, quantum board and it's near silent since it doesn't require a fan. With LED light assemblies you get what you pay for. There are definitely cheaper or weaker options, but SpiderFarmer is the sweet spot in my opinion.

 

[cbrshadow23]

WoW!
The price on these lights is plain crazy....

I got as high as amazon's 299.00 ekitty's 99.00 down to LingBaos 79.00! All appear to be the exact same model....

Do you think there's any reason not to grab a couple at the lowest price, or am I just missing something?

Cheers
DSD sends

Looking a little closer I'd be very nervous buying from those other sites.. It says SF-1000 and is priced for SF-1000, but it pictures the SF-2000 and the description is all for the SF-2000.
I ordered 1 of these direct from SpiderFarmer and 1 through Amazon and have been happy with both.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yeah, I thought so at first, but when I scrolled down both the LingBaos and ekitty's posted their item as:

• Model: SF2000 LED Grow Light
• Chips Brand: SAMSUNG

I guess I'll email them directly and see what they say.... thanks! DSD sends

 

[cbrshadow23]

Yeah, I thought so at first, but when I scrolled down both the LingBaos and ekitty's posted their item as:

• Model: SF2000 LED Grow Light
• Chips Brand: SAMSUNG

I guess I'll email them directly and see what they say.... thanks! DSD sends

Right, that's the description that I mentioned above. Even for an SF-1000 that's a great deal though, so if you order from them let me know how it goes!

 

[Paradox]

Looks like you ended up going with SpiderFarmer SF-2000 which is a great choice.
Just to wrap this up for any future readers who are looking for grow lights I can offer some advice.
For tropical plants "shop lights" from the hardware store would be a very poor choice. They don't put out enough usable light (PAR) to do much at all for your plants. I learned the hard way by starting with those and couldn't figure out why my tropicals were doing so poorly. I ended up buying a quantum PAR meter and that made everything clear. The shop lights with grow bulbs were giving my plants 200 ppfd, which is similar to VERY weak indirect sunlight. I switched to strong LED lights (not the type you can buy at the hardware store, not the cheap amazon type) and now get 3,000ppfd, roughly 15x the usable photosynthetic light as the shop lights.
To summarize:
200 ppfd: T5 shop lights from home depot
3000 ppfd: LED lights from Amazon (Spider Farmer SF2000)
2,500 ppfd: Central California afternoon sun in summer

Especially for tropical plants it's very much worth avoiding shop lights.

LOL I spent $100 on my shop light set up. I have been using it for 4 - 5 years.
My trees grow all winter. My Brazilain rain trees grow so much that I have to trim them every month or month and a half.
I even had one summer that I never put them outside so they were under those lights for 18 months.
You dont need to spend tons of money on a light set up and it doesnt have to be anything fancy. Just as long as you use full spectrum (aka Daylight) bulbs.

 

[cbrshadow23]

LOL I spent $100 on my shop light set up. I have been using it for 4 - 5 years.
My trees grow all winter. My Brazilain rain trees grow so much that I have to trim them every month or month and a half.
I even had one summer that I never put them outside so they were under those lights for 18 months.
You dont need to spend tons of money on a light set up and it doesnt have to be anything fancy. Just as long as you use full spectrum (aka Daylight) bulbs.

These conversations always end with someone saying "but my cheap lights do just fine", which is probably true since even $39 ikea grow lights will keep your plants from death over winter. My statements above are also true - if you want your plants to grow really well over winter you need powerful lights. Shop lights with grow bulbs are just too weak to push a lot of growth.

This isn't subjective though - it's able to be verified through testing with a Quantum PAR Meter, which I've done with shop lights and my current LED setup that I suggested above.

I posted these numbers above, but it makes things really clear:
200 ppfd: T5 shop lights from home depot
3000 ppfd: LED lights from Amazon (Spider Farmer SF2000)
2,500 ppfd: Central California afternoon sun in summer

Tropical plants like lots of light. Shop lights put out very little photosynthetic light and do a poor job of directing that light toward the plants, regardless if you're using full spectrum bulbs.

New quantum board LED's are also 5x more efficient, longer lasting, run cooler..

 

[Paradox]

These conversations always end with someone saying "but my cheap lights do just fine", which is probably true since even $39 ikea grow lights will keep your plants from death over winter. My statements above are also true - if you want your plants to grow really well over winter you need powerful lights. Shop lights with grow bulbs are just too weak to push a lot of growth.

This isn't subjective though - it's able to be verified through testing with a Quantum PAR Meter, which I've done with shop lights and my current LED setup that I suggested above.

I posted these numbers above, but it makes things really clear:
200 ppfd: T5 shop lights from home depot
3000 ppfd: LED lights from Amazon (Spider Farmer SF2000)
2,500 ppfd: Central California afternoon sun in summer

Tropical plants like lots of light. Shop lights put out very little photosynthetic light and do a poor job of directing that light toward the plants, regardless if you're using full spectrum bulbs.

New quantum board LED's are also 5x more efficient, longer lasting, run cooler..

Yeah and all these threads have someone touting some expensive crap just for the sake of it because if its expensive and has a fancy name, it has to work better right?

I have 6 daylight tubes (not grow bulbs) over my trees, not just one. Daylight tubes are full spectrum(6500K) bulbs.
Also, the inside of the fixtures are bare aluminum to reflect even more light out.

Shop lights with grow bulbs are just too weak to push a lot of growth.

Bullshit

My lights dont "just keep them from death until spring" My trees thrive under them all winter.
My Brazilian rain trees (thats a tropical by the way) grow so much under my lights in the winter that I have to cut them back every month.
They grow almost as much under those lights as they do outside in the sun during the summer.
I grew a willow leaf ficus (another tropical) from a pencil sized trunk to a trunk that is 2.5 inches at the base under those lights.

So dont come here and try to tell me that shop lights arent strong enough. Its not true and I have proven it for the last 5 years.

I dont need a fancy PAR meter either. Proof is in the response I get from the trees not how much money was spent, fancy name brands or PAR meters.
My trees grow like crazy under my lights every winter and that is all the proof I need.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Yeah and all these threads have someone touting some expensive crap just for the sake of it because if its expensive and has a fancy name, it has to work better right?

I have 6 daylight tubes over my plants, not just one. Daylight tubes are full spectrum bulbs. Also, the inside of the fixtures are bare aluminum to reflect even more light out.



Bullshit

My lights dont "just keep them from death until spring" My trees thrive under them all winter.
My Brazilian rain trees (thats a tropical by the way) grow so much under my lights in the winter that I have to cut them back every month.
They grow almost as much under those lights as they do outside in the sun during the summer.
I grew a willow leaf ficus (another tropical) from a pencil sized trunk to a trunk that is 2.5 inches at the base under those lights.

So dont come here and try to tell me that shop lights arent strong enough. Its not true and I have proven it for the last 5 years.

I dont need a fancy PAR meter either. Proof is in the response I get from the trees not how much money was spent, fancy name brands or PAR meters.
My trees grow like crazy under my lights every winter and that is all the proof I need.

Is making an entire paragraph bold font the equivalent to yelling?

I work with testing lighting professionally, have done tons of testing with the exact setups we're discussing, and there's an incredible amount of information online comparing T5 lights with new LEDs (and several technologies in between) and ALL of it supports what I'm saying.
You keep calling the equipment (lighting and PAR meters) 'fancy' for some reason. You can buy good LED setups for right around $100, which is what you said you spent on your T5 shop lights. PAR meters can be fancy, but they're the standard for measuring photosynthetic light so that people can avoid anecdotal evidence like what you're providing like "My trees thrive... that's all the proof I need". What if your trees could grow even better?

All you're telling me is that you're happy with the growth that your T5 setup provides. That's fine. All I'm telling you is that you could be getting better growth with better (LED) lights. Newer lighting technology has come a VERY long way in the last several years.
If you spent $100 on a T5 setup you would have been BETTER OFF spending that $100 on an LED setup. Period.

 

[Paradox]

Is making an entire paragraph bold font the equivalent to yelling?

I work with testing lighting professionally, have done tons of testing with the exact setups we're discussing, and there's an incredible amount of information online comparing T5 lights with new LEDs (and several technologies in between) and ALL of it supports what I'm saying.
You keep calling the equipment (lighting and PAR meters) 'fancy' for some reason. You can buy good LED setups for right around $100, which is what you said you spent on your T5 shop lights. PAR meters can be fancy, but they're the standard for measuring photosynthetic light so that people can avoid anecdotal evidence like what you're providing like "My trees thrive... that's all the proof I need". What if your trees could grow even better?

All you're telling me is that you're happy with the growth that your T5 setup provides. That's fine. All I'm telling you is that you could be getting better growth with better (LED) lights. Newer lighting technology has come a VERY long way in the last several years.
If you spent $100 on a T5 setup you would have been BETTER OFF spending that $100 on an LED setup. Period.

I wanted to make sure you didnt miss the fact that my trees grow under my lights and are not being just barely kept from death by them.

I have used PAR meters to measure light out in eelgrass beds in the bay. I know exactly what they are and am very familiar with light science.

I also have a freshwater planted fish tank and have grown corals under lights which is probably the most demanding application there is for growing something under lights.

How could I not be happy with my set up? My trees grow 2-3 foot branches if I dont trim them. Its pretty much as good as they do when they are outside in the summer.
I dont need the PAR meter because I know the trees are getting enough light because they grow like crazy under the lights. No need to fix what isnt broken and no need to waste money on a set up I dont need.

 

[cbrshadow23]

I wanted to make sure you didnt miss the fact that my trees grow under my lights and are not being just barely kept from death by them.

I have used PAR meters to measure light out in eelgrass beds in the bay. I know exactly what they are and am very familiar with light science.

I also have a freshwater planted fish tank and have grown corals under lights which is probably the most demanding application there is for growing something under lights.

How could I not be happy with my set up? My trees grow 2-3 foot branches if I dont trim them. Its pretty much as good as they do when they are outside in the summer.
I dont need the PAR meter because I know the trees are getting enough light because they grow like crazy under the lights. No need to fix what isnt broken and no need to waste money on a set up I dont need.

I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I don't feel like we're making any progress here. I posted the above recommendation because LED's are the best way to go for grow lights right now by ANY metric, including cost.
If anyone reads through these messages and wants to discuss grow lights feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Paradox]

I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I don't feel like we're making any progress here. I posted the above recommendation because LED's are the best way to go for grow lights right now by ANY metric, including cost.
If anyone reads through these messages and wants to discuss grow lights feel free to send me a PM.

your opinion, its not fact and its not proven imo

And No I wont agree with you, period
So we will just have to agree to disagree.

I grow trees under shoplights all winter every winter. It works, period.
I see no reason to change what works.

People grew things under lights way before there were LEDs.
LEDs have become cheaper recently which makes them more affordable than some setups in the past like metal halides but things still can and are grown under non LED.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Buy a shop light from Home Depot and put daylight florescent bulbs in it.
I use such a set up for my Brazilain Rain trees and ficus during the winter.

My and ficus grow most of the winter under this set up.

View attachment 320834

Do this unless your growing weed....

 

[Hack Yeah!]

You're, lol

 

[Paradox]

Do this unless your growing weed....

or own stock in an LED company?