Nursery stock 2 hollies in pot 1 dead on sale

BrightsideB

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USDA Zone
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I was searching the “compromised” pile at a nursery and found this holly with small foliage with a 3/4 nebari. It had two in one pot and the other died so I guess that is why they didn’t want it. The one that was living looked good and it flowered about a month ago really nicely. I want to separate it from the dead one but am not sure if winter would be a good time in zone 7a to repot. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 

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Yes, do wait for spring. Don't worry about the dead tree. If it can be extricated at re-potting time that is good but otherwise it will just decompose.
Almost all commercial growers plant shrubs 2 to a pot. It has nothing to do with the sexes, it is to develop a fuller pot faster. It is a process I do not like or agree with. Often the plants will fuse in the roots but often they will not. In the latter case, one plant can outgrow the other and stunt it or kill it. Go to your nursery and check it out, almost all hollies are done this way.
 
@RKMcGinnis
I thought it didn't quite look like a holly, and was thinking Osmanthus, which would also explain it flowering recently. Look at the tag hanging off of the pot.
I scarcley glanced at the picture myself. I was just commenting on the practice of using 2 and sometimes 3 plants to a pot used by most commercial growers.
 
Yes, do wait for spring. Don't worry about the dead tree. If it can be extricated at re-potting time that is good but otherwise it will just decompose.
Almost all commercial growers plant shrubs 2 to a pot. It has nothing to do with the sexes, it is to develop a fuller pot faster. It is a process I do not like or agree with. Often the plants will fuse in the roots but often they will not. In the latter case, one plant can outgrow the other and stunt it or kill it. Go to your nursery and check it out, almost all hollies are done this way.
I’ve noticed that it is hard to separate them without a lot of damage.
 
@RKMcGinnis
I thought it didn't quite look like a holly, and was thinking Osmanthus, which would also explain it flowering recently. Look at the tag hanging off of the pot.
You are right. Good eye! I just went out and checked the mossy tag. Could barely read it lol. It said osmanthus princess. I think this plant was in the nurseries throw out pile for a while. It was a few bucks so I couldn’t pass it up.
 
@RKMcGinnis
The spines on the leaves are usually longer on Osmanthus, and I can tell heterophllyus usually from the leaf venation although I couldn't get a good look at that from your pics. Then I saw the hanging tag!

I fear coming off pedantic when I i.d. plants that people have misidentified, but I only want the person to know what they have so they can correctly cultivate it. After working for at nursery for 12 years, it was ingrained in me to use the botanical name first.

It's a cultivar I've never heard of before, so that's cool! It's supposedly a dwarf variety and flowers at an early age.

In my opinion, Osmanthus has some of the best fragrance around! Typically, the species 'fragrans' is the best, I'm not sure if heterophllyus is as fragrant though. The site I looked at said that your cultivar is good for bonsai! I'm not really seeing any dwarf characteristics on yours, hopefully it's not the straight species.

Care should be pretty similar to hollies. The only other thing I can add is that some Osmanthus can be temperamental to cold and are prone to some dieback, but they should bounce back from any issues like hollies.

I was just commenting on the practice of using 2 and sometimes 3 plants to a pot used by most commercial growers
Definitely. It is very common, I would say greater than 50% of small containerized plants are like this. But especially with meserveae hybrids and verticillatas to get appropriate pollenizers together; although I always wondered how these plants would perform once mature... Would one eventually choke out the other??? Last week I had a client ask me why only one plant of his hedge had berries and the others didn't, I had to tell him his hedge was Osmanthus and that he had mistakenly planted a female blue holly in there.

That's also how I got a crap load of Grace Hendrick Phillips boxwoods. I bought a bunch of 1 gallons (priced over $20 eacho_O) and separated out the individual plugs, it was definitely worth it!
 
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@RKMcGinnis
The spines on the leaves are usually longer on Osmanthus, and I can tell heterophllyus usually from the leaf venation although I couldn't get a good look at that from your pics. Then I saw the hanging tag!

I fear coming off pedantic when I i.d. plants that people have misidentified, but I only want the person to know what they have so they can correctly cultivate it. After working for at nursery for 12 years, it was ingrained in me to use the botanical name first.

It's a cultivar I've never heard of before, so that's cool! It's supposedly a dwarf variety and flowers at an early age.

In my opinion, Osmanthus has some of the best fragrance around! Typically, the species 'fragrans' is the best, I'm not sure if heterophllyus is as fragrant though. The site I looked at said that your cultivar is good for bonsai! I'm not really seeing any dwarf characteristics on yours, hopefully it's not the straight species.

Care should be pretty similar to hollies. The only other thing I can add is that some Osmanthus can be temperamental to cold and are prone to some dieback, but they should bounce back from any issues like hollies.


Definitely. It is very common, I would say greater than 50% of small containerized plants are like this. But especially with meserveae hybrids and verticillatas to get appropriate pollenizers together; although I always wondered how these plants would perform once mature... Would one eventually choke out the other??? Last week I had a client ask me why only one plant of his hedge had berries and the others didn't, I had to tell him his hedge was Osmanthus and that he had mistakenly planted a female blue holly in there.

That's also how I got a crap load of Grace Hendrick Phillips boxwoods. I bought a bunch of 1 gallons (priced over $20 eacho_O) and separated out the individual plugs, it was definitely worth it!
It had a pretty nice fragrance when it flowered. It flowered a good bit so I figured it was pretty healthy unlike it’s dead sibling next to it lol. I actually passed it up last time the first time I saw it and told myself I’d pick it up if it was still in their discount area the next time 6 months later still there so I knew they’d pretty much just give it away. Guess I’ll hold out until spring to root prune and repot. I was thinking about wiring and pruning this weekend but maybe should wait and see how it does during this winter due to the fact they can have some die back.
 
@RKMcGinnis
The spines on the leaves are usually longer on Osmanthus, and I can tell heterophllyus usually from the leaf venation although I couldn't get a good look at that from your pics. Then I saw the hanging tag!

I fear coming off pedantic when I i.d. plants that people have misidentified, but I only want the person to know what they have so they can correctly cultivate it. After working for at nursery for 12 years, it was ingrained in me to use the botanical name first.

It's a cultivar I've never heard of before, so that's cool! It's supposedly a dwarf variety and flowers at an early age.

In my opinion, Osmanthus has some of the best fragrance around! Typically, the species 'fragrans' is the best, I'm not sure if heterophllyus is as fragrant though. The site I looked at said that your cultivar is good for bonsai! I'm not really seeing any dwarf characteristics on yours, hopefully it's not the straight species.

Care should be pretty similar to hollies. The only other thing I can add is that some Osmanthus can be temperamental to cold and are prone to some dieback, but they should bounce back from any issues like hollies.


Definitely. It is very common, I would say greater than 50% of small containerized plants are like this. But especially with meserveae hybrids and verticillatas to get appropriate pollenizers together; although I always wondered how these plants would perform once mature... Would one eventually choke out the other??? Last week I had a client ask me why only one plant of his hedge had berries and the others didn't, I had to tell him his hedge was Osmanthus and that he had mistakenly planted a female blue holly in there.

That's also how I got a crap load of Grace Hendrick Phillips boxwoods. I bought a bunch of 1 gallons (priced over $20 eacho_O) and separated out the individual plugs, it was definitely worth it
And I thank you for pointing out what it was. I really thought it was some kind of holly. Lol the plant kingdom is very diverse!
 
during this winter due to the fact they can have some die back.
Just my experience from my area. Heterophllyus does much better here than fragrans, our winters are just a touch too cold for them usually (unfortunately). I bet most Osmanthus would be just about bullet proof in Georgia.
 
I love the Osmanthus. I have a couple, that up north here, I have to keep as indoors for winter plants. Osmanthus heterophyllus 'Kaori Hime' is supposed to be great for bonsai, and for having it about a year I'd have to say yes, it is. Nurseries Carolina gave this clone the trade name 'Party Princess' . That is probably the clone you have. Fragrance is close but not quite as strong as fragrans.

I also have Osmanthus fragrans 'Fuddingzhu' and 'Tianxiang Taige'. O fragrans is not as good for bonsai, leaves are too large, and frequent long internodes make it a bad bonsai. I keep it as a delightful fragrant houseplant.
 
I love the Osmanthus. I have a couple, that up north here, I have to keep as indoors for winter plants. Osmanthus heterophyllus 'Kaori Hime' is supposed to be great for bonsai, and for having it about a year I'd have to say yes, it is. Nurseries Carolina gave this clone the trade name 'Party Princess' . That is probably the clone you have. Fragrance is close but not quite as strong as fragrans.

I also have Osmanthus fragrans 'Fuddingzhu' and 'Tianxiang Taige'. O fragrans is not as good for bonsai, leaves are too large, and frequent long internodes make it a bad bonsai. I keep it as a delightful fragrant houseplant.
You are right it is party princess. It seemed like it had the potential for good bonsai. But I have only been practicing the art for a few years so still a lot to learn. We’ve been getting temps in the low 20’s at night. Hope my plants survive the winter. Hoping to get a cold storage room in a year or so. Does it need direct sunlight indoors?
 
I grow them under lights, in the basement, no natural light. They can take the sun from a south window when indoors. Though fragrans does well with shade. Heterophyllus likes a little more sun than fragrans. Outdoors in summer, I give both about 4 hours direct sun, bright shade rest of day.
 
Osmanthus fragrans is really only hardy to zone 8 or maybe 7b. Osmanthus heterophyllus is listed as hardy to zone 7a or maybe 6b. BUT the cultivar 'Party Princess' or 'Kaori Hime' or 'Kaori Heme' is quite new in the USA, I would not personally risk exposing it to temps below 23 F. (roughly -5 C ). Top might be hardy, but if the roots in the pot freeze, I do not know how cold tolerant Osmanthus roots are.

For example, Ginkgo, in Chicago are very hardy, the trees planted in the landscape survive -25 F no problem. BUT planted in the ground, roots below maybe 4 inches deep in the soil never experience cold like the air. Soil is a good insulator. The cold does not penetrate rapidly. The roots might be at +10 or +15 F on the nights that the air temp is -25 F. I found through experience, a ginkgo in a pot is NOT winter hardy in Chicago. You either have to bury the pot into the ground. and mulch it in, or you have to move the ginkgo to a protected location.

So, I don't know for certain, just how cold tolerant O. heterophyllus really is. As a bonsai I would protect it from situations where the pot would freeze sold.
 
Osmanthus fragrans is really only hardy to zone 8 or maybe 7b. Osmanthus heterophyllus is listed as hardy to zone 7a or maybe 6b. BUT the cultivar 'Party Princess' or 'Kaori Hime' or 'Kaori Heme' is quite new in the USA, I would not personally risk exposing it to temps below 23 F. (roughly -5 C ). Top might be hardy, but if the roots in the pot freeze, I do not know how cold tolerant Osmanthus roots are.

For example, Ginkgo, in Chicago are very hardy, the trees planted in the landscape survive -25 F no problem. BUT planted in the ground, roots below maybe 4 inches deep in the soil never experience cold like the air. Soil is a good insulator. The cold does not penetrate rapidly. The roots might be at +10 or +15 F on the nights that the air temp is -25 F. I found through experience, a ginkgo in a pot is NOT winter hardy in Chicago. You either have to bury the pot into the ground. and mulch it in, or you have to move the ginkgo to a protected location.

So, I don't know for certain, just how cold tolerant O. heterophyllus really is. As a bonsai I would protect it from situations where the pot would freeze sold.
We were hit with temps in the low 20’s last week and everything froze overnight until the sun came out. I am going to mulch some of my trees in today.
 
I love the Osmanthus. I have a couple, that up north here, I have to keep as indoors for winter plants. Osmanthus heterophyllus 'Kaori Hime' is supposed to be great for bonsai, and for having it about a year I'd have to say yes, it is. Nurseries Carolina gave this clone the trade name 'Party Princess' . That is probably the clone you have. Fragrance is close but not quite as strong as fragrans.

I also have Osmanthus fragrans 'Fuddingzhu' and 'Tianxiang Taige'. O fragrans is not as good for bonsai, leaves are too large, and frequent long internodes make it a bad bonsai. I keep it as a delightful fragrant houseplant.
Love the Osmanthus as well, but difficult to find one that is zone7a hardy.
I found this one at Amazon, see screenshot, claims hardy to -8F, hard to believe. Any thoughts?
 

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Love the Osmanthus as well, but difficult to find one that is zone7a hardy.
I found this one at Amazon, see screenshot, claims hardy to -8F, hard to believe. Any thoughts?

Check out Nurseries Carolina, they ship mail order, I have ordered from them a half dozen times over the last 10 years and have always been happy with the plants they have shipped me. I'm in IL, and the plants they ship from North Carolina make it here in great shape. I prefer to work with brick and mortar businesses, rather than anonymous web only businesses.

 
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