October, my Phoenix Graft.

[edprocoat]

I had this nice stump from a Birds nest spruce I killed in record time. I treated it several times with lime sulfur. I read online where you should use a cement block for a base to keep the bottom from rotting, which seemed like a mess and would make it too large so I coated the bottom of the trunk and root ends with two part 4 minute set epoxy and set it in some black aquarium gravel, the epoxy will waterproof the wood and the gravel leaves me about a quarter of an inch clearance from the dirt.

October epoxy gravel by edsnapshot, on Flickr

After it dried I went and coated the gnarly roots with minwax honey oak stain to darken them to give the illusion they were alive, this is what I was left with.

October ready by edsnapshot, on Flickr

Then I mounted the tree and potted it in a 6 inch brown ceramic pot from lowes to let it grow a bit. I ground it where the juniper fit in snug enough that I thought I may not need to attach it with a screw as it was concave and the tree snapped in well, but then I thought maybe as it grew it might pop loose so I put in one brass screw to hold it place. this is what it looks like now.

October by edsnapshot, on Flickr


I think I am going to cut off the lower branch on the left side off as it looks out of place to me. I named it " October " as he posted a beautiful Phoenix Graft that he created and I PM'd him and he was kind enough to write me back sharing his knowledge of the questions I asked of him. I was thinking of doing this since early december and looked online seeing some useless info, one guy had attached his tree to the deadwood using three common black drywall screws, the kind that rust after the first rain, I bet that tree was dead soon after. I hope my idea with the epoxy and aquarium gravel works to keep the base from rotting, it seems to me it should, but time will tell. I promised October if he hated the tree I would change the name LOL.

The juniper was one I had tried to grow on a rock, after 2 1/2 years it had still not attaced to the rock and I was sick of waiting for it, I don't know why it did not attach to the rock, it was a red pumice rock, I carved a hollow out for the base and drilled three holes for the large roots, mixed ohio clay I dug from a riverbank and miacle grow potting soil into a paste and covered the rock with it. The juni grew massive amounts of fine roots, the large roots in the drilled holes rotted away, I assume because the rock holds water with all the holes in it. I hope its new incarnation works out.

ed

 

[JudyB]

Ed, it looks like it's trying to crawl up out of the pot with those roots going on....

 

[edprocoat]

Ed, it looks like it's trying to crawl up out of the pot with those roots going on....

Yeah it reminds me of the many trees I see in nature with roots like those, especially here in Florida. Like this one with the neat roots.

steppin' out by edsnapshot, on Flickr

ed

 

[october]

Hi Ed,
Good to see that you gave the phoenix graft a try. Here is what I think... First, You will need to let this tree rest, you have a bare minimum of branches here, if you lose one, it might make it very difficult to find a good design. I would let it rest for maybe one season before anymore work is done to it. Also, since the deadwood is in fact "dead", the sky is the limit. You are a contractor and know how to use tools. When the tree gets settled, you may want to carve some natural looking shari lines. Some semi deep, slightly winding and curvy channels going up the front of the tree. This will make for more visual interest. Remember, the point of these creations is to create something old and beautiful in a short peiod of time. Right now, the deadwood' exterior is so smooth, it looks artifical and young.

Regarding the roots. Although the roots do resemble some roots in nature. I feel they are a distraction and actually take away from the composition. I think the natural base is much more appealing. I would remove those roots.

As far as future styling, keep it simple create a few folage pads and an apex. You can even carve the top of the dead wood and create and apex on the side of it. Regarding the branches, you are going to need to wire and bend those branches back closer to the trunk. You will need to create subtle bends in the branches to make them look shorter and closer to the trunk.

I think this creation has some nice potential. Providing you are willing to be patient to allow the tree to grow and become strong. Also, be creative and put some realistic shari in the wood. Here are a couple of visuals that might help. First is a virt of how I see the tree in the future. A very simple design. A few folaige pads, an apex and some carving. The next picture is a phoenix graft that used to be at the nursery many years ago. It was a magnificent tree. Also, it was a more involved project than yours. I thought you might be able to use the shari on this tree as an example for some carving.

Rob

 

[edprocoat]

Thanks again for the advice. The top left branch was actually in a groove I carved in the side of the tree holding it to the trunk, I never noticed it had popped out till the next afternoon and I never gave any thought about the picture I posted here until you pointed it out. Is it just me or do these pictures look so different from the trees in person? I wrapped a piece of wire around the trunk to hold it in place until which time it holds there on its own. I also removed the lower left branch at the same time, now viewing your virtual I wish I had left it alone. I will remove the two visually dominant roots, the looped one on the right and the one that circles to the back on the left as you are the second one to mention they don't look good, although I like grotesque roots as they appeal to me, but I did name it October afterall. As far as the tree you posted for inspiration, I am thinking that if that is what a good Phoenix graft should look like, I need to take up a new hobby, as I am sure I will never be able to approach the beauty of that tree.

ed

 

[Bonsaiforlife]

As far as the tree you posted for inspiration, I am thinking that if that is what a good Phoenix graft should look like, I need to take up a new hobby, as I am sure I will never be able to approach the beauty of that tree.

ed

Dont worry about that, just work with the trees you have right now and follow the advice given to you. Everything takes lots of time to do and the quickest way to achieve good results is to wait and let the tree get strong. I know that sounds backwards but a weak tree will not develop as fast as a strong tree.

 

[edprocoat]

Dont worry about that, just work with the trees you have right now and follow the advice given to you. Everything takes lots of time to do and the quickest way to achieve good results is to wait and let the tree get strong. I know that sounds backwards but a weak tree will not develop as fast as a strong tree.

Thanks, but I know that. What I was referring to is a tree such as that would have to take 10 years to accomplish, I am almost 52 now, and in the next ten years I will be (hopefully!) at maybe 80-100 different jobsites with my trees. I have the time but I doubt something of that beauty would ever last around the average campground without walking away with someone, at least this has been my experience with a great many of my trees which were of far less visual appeal than that one.

ed

 

[october]

Hello Ed,
I think your first phoenix graft has potential to be nice within about 5 years. As far as the one that I posted from the nursery. I do not know how long it took. However, I do not think it was 10 years. Simply because most phoenix grafts are created to save time and have an old and nice looking creation rather quickly.

For the future of your phoenix graft, as I said, I think within 5 years you will have something nice. As far as the placement of branches, you do not necessarilly have to worry where the branches are. This is what wiring is for. As long as they are roughly in the area that is fine. When I created mine, I had to really bend, twist and tie the branches pretty drastically to get them in the right places.

Usually people who create phoenix grafts are very seasoned bonsai artists. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. I would like to offer something that, I believe, will really help with your bonsai journey. You had mentioned that you are 52. That is by no means too old to create future beautiful bonsai and bonsai masterpieces. You have plenty of time. What you might be lacking, however, is cronologically arranged bonsai knowledge. You are trying to create something from bits and pieces of knowledge without the foundation needed to succeed. Take surgery for example. A surgeon has to know full anatomy and how to cut and skillfully operate on a certain organ. The surgeon does not learn just what to do when the organ is in his sight. He must learn how to prep, incise and reach the organ of destination. Without these skills, it does not matter if he knows what to do once he is inside. In my opinion, I think that if you started to begin some study of bonsai, such as the 5 styles, basic wiring and species specific pruning. I think you would have more fun and enjoy your trees much more.

There are many different bonsai enthusiasts, some casual, some serious. There is nothing wrong with keeping a tree or 2 or casual bonsai keeping. However, without time spent studying the art in the proper steps, one cannot expect creations such as the masters create. Bonsai is a beautiful and vast art. The more you learn, the more you will love and respect the art and all the beauty that nature has to offer.

Rob

 

[edprocoat]

Well so far two branches down and one remaining, but it seems to be growing out well. I carved a bunch which does not show up well when I photograph it. I also hollowed out the stump ends to give them some depth. The windstorm that tore up the midwest did a number on this breaking my pot and all I had was this emergency pot, a cut down nursery pot.


octobernow by edprocoat, on Flickr

Edit: Oh yeah, I removed the roots to sate you nuts ! Actually I flipped them over and glued them back on, the one on the right side disappeared after breaking off in the storm with the other damage, there was so much debris it just blended in and was probably swept up. The front one is still on as the pot landed on the right side sparing it. i plan on adding more roots, the success rate is phenomonal adding roots like this.

ed

 

[october]

Looks nice..I see a great looking tree in the near future.. What you want to do now is nothing.... Let the tree completely bush out. Then, cut it back. I really think that this will be very nice. Providing you let the branches grow untouched. Then you will have beautiful strong branches and a beautiful silhoette.

Rob

 

[edprocoat]

Looks nice..I see a great looking tree in the near future.. What you want to do now is nothing.... Let the tree completely bush out. Then, cut it back. I really think that this will be very nice. Providing you let the branches grow untouched. Then you will have beautiful strong branches and a beautiful silhoette.

Rob

Thanks for the positive feedback ! I hope to have some nicer branching by next summer, you would be surprised how much the remaining foliage has grown in the past month. Lets see what it looks like next year.

ed

 

[TheSteve]

well? how's it look?

 

[october]

well? how's it look?

Not sure we will get an update.. Ed doesn't seem to be on much anymore. I think he lost most of his trees due to some weather issues.

I would like to see an update on this though.

Rob

 

[edprocoat]

I will post a pic of this tree its doing great! Fortunately I did not lose most my trees but i have lost a few. The weird thing is the tropicals that froze came back strong, new growth looking good and then just wasted away. I was really sad to lose my old scheffelera, and all my ficus except for the ugly little stump one. The cotoneaster was a real kick in the balls though. I have been having problems writing posts here for teh past few months, everything freezes when i try to correct my mistakes and it sets there for a few minutes then say auto-saved then lets me type again, if I try to hit backspace is when it happens, my typing I hit backspace a lot ! This post has taken me 6 minutes so far.'

ed

 

[milehigh_7]

...I have been having problems writing posts here for teh past few months, everything freezes when i try to correct my mistakes and it sets there for a few minutes then say auto-saved then lets me type again, if I try to hit backspace is when it happens, my typing I hit backspace a lot ! This post has taken me 6 minutes so far.'

ed

I can pretty safely say you have spyware and lots of it. What happens is once it you get a downloader it installs stuff without you even knowing and it happens in the background. You can fix it yourself but I would invest a bit on a good tech to fix it for you.

 

[edprocoat]

I can pretty safely say you have spyware and lots of it. What happens is once it you get a downloader it installs stuff without you even knowing and it happens in the background. You can fix it yourself but I would invest a bit on a good tech to fix it for you.

No Milehigh I have no spyware, I frequent many sites, Flickr and several other graphic intense sites, pictures etc. and many with just plain message boards. B-nut is the only place I have a problem with and I am certain its something to do with the auto-save feature. I get this little yellow box that says "auto-saved" popping up and if I am backspacing or returning from a backspace, hitting enter, or even clicking on a smiley it freezes up.

Here is the picture I promised of October my Phoenix graft, the storms blew this and my bench over with all my plants on it, the plastic pot I had it in disappeared so I stuck it in this pot. I had a better one, IMO, but I could not find it at the time and now I have it lol.


Octoboccupy by edprocoat, on Flickr

It seems to be doing great, the plastic pot needed to go anyway, it had cracked from the top to bottom in that crazy freeze we had last fall and I duct taped it together at the time. This is actually the second time its been uprooted from a windstorm in less than a year and it seems healthy and growing luckily.

BTW this message is entering flawlessly so far !

ed

 

[daygan]

This is looking nice! Great to see you posting, Ed

 

[TheSteve]

Time get wiring this one. It's growing like a weed

 

[Smoke]

That thing is looking pretty damn good!

Yep I think some wire is due. I think it will improve even more with some shape in that foliage.


Who are those creepy dudes in the soil of your pot?

 

[edprocoat]

That thing is looking pretty damn good!

Yep I think some wire is due. I think it will improve even more with some shape in that foliage.


Who are those creepy dudes in the soil of your pot?

The one on the left is some chinese dude who seems to be hittin' the opium pipe, the one on the right was part of a root that I tried to carve a face on, like it ws swallowed by the tree, its probably gonna go. Think it was an effort due to an acid flasback !

ed