opinions on my homemade inorganic soil.

[Beetleman72]

I make my soil mix with 1 part permatill (expanded shale) 1 part decomposed granite, 1 part turface and half a part sifted pine bark. I sift everything through half inch screen as well as window screen sized screen. Does that sound like a good functional soil mix?

 

[Dav4]

I make my soil mix with 1 part permatill (expanded shale) 1 part decomposed granite, 1 part turface and half a part sifted pine bark. I sift everything through half inch screen as well as window screen sized screen. Does that sound like a good functional soil mix?

Sounds pretty good...take a picture with a dime on top of the mix for reference so we can see what the mix looks like. Fwiw, I don't add any organics to my mix any more, and I'm moving away from sand or granite (too heavy). See if you can find crushed lava or pumice (dry stall)...they are awesome components to any soil mix (and lightweight).

 

[Poink88]

Sounds pretty good...take a picture with a dime on top of the mix for reference so we can see what the mix looks like. ... and I'm moving away from sand or granite (too heavy). See if you can find crushed lava or pumice (dry stall)...they are awesome components to any soil mix (and lightweight).

I agree to all of the above. Personally, I'd do away of the decomposed granite and replace it with Turface (increase portion) if you cannot get lava or pumice.

I still add organics though just because of TX heat/drought conditions.

 

[Beetleman72]

Here are the pics what do you think?

 

[fourteener]

Here are the pics what do you think?

View attachment 38405View attachment 38406

I would do more sifting to get all of the particles to be the same size. When the particles are all different sizes they compact. The small particles fill in the gaps between the big particles and steal the space. The space is there to promote the soil holding oxygen and a place for new roots to venture into.

 

[Vance Wood]

I would do more sifting to get all of the particles to be the same size. When the particles are all different sizes they compact. The small particles fill in the gaps between the big particles and steal the space. The space is there to promote the soil holding oxygen and a place for new roots to venture into.

In my experience this is impossible unless you use 100% the same material and do not vary the elements in your soil. I don't mean to contradict anyone but I don't believe this goal can be attained.

 

[Beetleman72]

I would do more sifting to get all of the particles to be the same size. When the particles are all different sizes they compact. The small particles fill in the gaps between the big particles and steal the space. The space is there to promote the soil holding oxygen and a place for new roots to venture into.

The larger particles are the permatill. The reason that I sift them through half inch screen is because if I did quarter inch I might get a pound of usable stuff out of a 40 lb bag and I like it a lot because its porous and jagged. What would you recommended using instead? Another thing is that I live in bfe and its very hard to get good components for bonsai soil. I can't even get turface here I just happened to luck out and my high school baseball coach had a bag that he just gave to me but once its gone its gone. I could order it and have it shipped but that would cost me 80 dollars a bag. So the only things I've been able to find are pink granite chicken grit, the permatill. I have no idea what I'm going to do for calcinated clay after this is used up. What can I use? I've tried oil dry and that stuff is terrible so I'm worried about how I'm going to make good bonsai soil in the future

 

[Vance Wood]

I make my soil mix with 1 part permatill (expanded shale) 1 part decomposed granite, 1 part turface and half a part sifted pine bark. I sift everything through half inch screen as well as window screen sized screen. Does that sound like a good functional soil mix?

This sounds to me like a workable mix though I would prefer seeing a bit of sand and a little less substrate, things like permatill, and turface are substrates.

 

[Vance Wood]

The larger particles are the permatill. The reason that I sift them through half inch screen is because if I did quarter inch I might get a pound of usable stuff out of a 40 lb bag and I like it a lot because its porous and jagged. What would you recommended using instead? Another thing is that I live in bfe and its very hard to get good components for bonsai soil. I can't even get turface here I just happened to luck out and my high school baseball coach had a bag that he just gave to me but once its gone its gone. I could order it and have it shipped but that would cost me 80 dollars a bag. So the only things I've been able to find are pink granite chicken grit, the permatill. I have no idea what I'm going to do for calcinated clay after this is used up. What can I use? I've tried oil dry and that stuff is terrible so I'm worried about how I'm going to make good bonsai soil in the future

See if you can work it out with the baseball coach, the stuff is used to dress the fields and they undoubtedly have a source for it.

 

[Stan Kengai]

I would do more sifting to get all of the particles to be the same size. When the particles are all different sizes they compact. The small particles fill in the gaps between the big particles and steal the space. The space is there to promote the soil holding oxygen and a place for new roots to venture into.

+1. Uniform particle size, in my opinion, is just as important as soil components. Your components are adequate, but as Dav said, you'd be better subbing scoria (lava) for the sand/grit.

 

[fourteener]

I would say it is pretty easy to get your particles the same size. That is the point of sifting right. If it falls through one screen and not another it is going to fall within a very similar range. I use haydite, granite and pine bark. Here are the three sizes I use.

I'm out of the larger sized granite for now.

I go three-one-one almost all the time. 3 granite, 1 haydite, 1 Pine bark. The only change up is the rhodi's. Maybe a deciduous tree will get an extra scoup of haydite when it's short of a really good root system.

I use the larger size in grow boxes, the medium size for most everything, the smaller size for smaller trees and trees that like more moisture.

If the particles aren't the same size your really missing out on the reason to sift in the first place.

 

[Poink88]

I would do more sifting to get all of the particles to be the same size. When the particles are all different sizes they compact. The small particles fill in the gaps between the big particles and steal the space. The space is there to promote the soil holding oxygen and a place for new roots to venture into.

Sorry to disagree. The mix only fill voids down allowed by the minimum sized particle. Without the fines, the mix should remain aerated and free draining. That is why several people just sift with window screen and still have good results.

 

[fourteener]

Sorry to disagree. The mix only fill voids down allowed by the minimum sized particle. Without the fines, the mix should remain aerated and free draining. That is why several people just sift with window screen and still have good results.

Buy the ant farm toy and fill it with random sized particles and same sized particles and tell me it's not different, especially with my medium to large sized mix.

Good results are good, but it can be different from best results.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one for sure.

 

[Poink88]

Ant farm is different. Water and air don't really need uniform spaces to flow through.

But I am sure your mix is great and as long as it works for you and you are happy with it, then please keep using it.

 

[fourteener]

Ant farm is different. Water and air don't really need uniform spaces to flow through.

But I am sure your mix is great and as long as it works for you and you are happy with it, then please keep using it.

I think your missing my point. Even sized pieces are less able to wedge themselves together in a way that robs the soil of space. Sand is small and has almost no ability to leave much space for air. Pea gravel is larger and the space is much larger, thus the water pours through fast. I'm not saying that air and water can't make it through uneven spaces, I'm saying the the spaces are needed by the roots. When the space is larger it doesn't stay soaked, thus the air is allowed to share space with the root. When smaller particles are mixed in with bigger particles the space is diminished, less air gets to the roots, less root development, more rot, more fungus, etc, etc.

The ant farm isn't for the sake of looking at ants, it's to see the amount of space. My trees in development live in the largest size soil I have, because they develop more roots while having greater access(more space) to oxygen.

 

[Adair M]

Personally, I don't like the shape of your particles. They're all sharp, not rounded. Round particles will hold the air space between particles. Sharp particles will settle. And eliminate the air space between particles. I also agree that the size of the particles should be more uniform.

I use "Boon's Mix". It is composed of scoria (lava), pumice, and akadama. These are all round or oval particles. No pine bark.

I sift each of my components by size using the standard bonsai soil sifter separately. Once each component has been sifted and separated by size of particle, then I mix them together. So a particular sized bucket of pumice will be mixed with akadama and lava that all passed thru the same screen (but not the next smallest.) Yes, it's a pain in the rear! But I get a uniform sized soil mix. I usually end up with 3 sizes: 1) Very large particles that I can use as a "drainage layer" in the bottom of large pots; 2: My pine and confer size (this about "pea" sized; and 3: a smaller size I use for deciduous trees such as zelkova and maples (about "BB" sized). Anything that passes thru the smallest screen (like window screening) is too small and is discarded.

 

[Smoke]

Personally, I don't like the shape of your particles. They're all sharp, not rounded. Round particles will hold the air space between particles. Sharp particles will settle. And eliminate the air space between particles. I also agree that the size of the particles should be more uniform.

I use "Boon's Mix". It is composed of scoria (lava), pumice, and akadama. These are all round or oval particles. No pine bark.

I sift each of my components by size using the standard bonsai soil sifter separately. Once each component has been sifted and separated by size of particle, then I mix them together. So a particular sized bucket of pumice will be mixed with akadama and lava that all passed thru the same screen (but not the next smallest.) Yes, it's a pain in the rear! But I get a uniform sized soil mix. I usually end up with 3 sizes: 1) Very large particles that I can use as a "drainage layer" in the bottom of large pots; 2: My pine and confer size (this about "pea" sized; and 3: a smaller size I use for deciduous trees such as zelkova and maples (about "BB" sized). Anything that passes thru the smallest screen (like window screening) is too small and is discarded.

Bingo......

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I think all have good answers but all needs to go back and read the original post. Beetleman is in Franklin, NC and has limited access to all the very neat ingredients that people find in areas where they may live.

For example, I have been trying to find 1/4-3/8" lava rock for 10 years around this area. No one has it nor can get it. I can order a bag and pay three times the value of the contents for freight. It just isn't practical to advise Beetleman to add lava rock to his mix, good idea but of no use to him.

I think he has made it clear what he can and can't get in his area.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Beetleman, There is a Hughes Supply, do a web search, in Hendersonville. If a trip over there is a practical exercise for you, they have filter sand. I forget if it is called #5 or #3 well sand or filter sand. Last time I bought some it was in the $6 a bag range. It is a good way to get uniformly screened sand that is roughly 1/8" particle size. That pink chicken grit I take it may have come from Tractor Supply, that's where I get mine.

Do a search for John Deere Landscapes stores. There are a lot of them in NC and you may find one that is accessible to you. My experience with them is they want encourage business customers no individual customers, if you have a business card it can help cut through the "stuff". They may have or can get Turface for you. If they don't have it in the store they may be able to get some on the next truck that comes through, and you not have to pay freight for it. It's worth a try if you can get to one of their locations.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Looks like the nearest John Deere Landscape to you is up around Asheville.