opinions on my homemade inorganic soil.

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

This place may have DriStall or StallDry or how ever you identify it. It is pumice that is used in horse stalls. I get mine from Southern States store. This place came up with a search for Southern States store.

Dowdle's Farm Suppy
3431 Georgia Highway
Franklin, NC

[TABLE="class: StoreSearchResultsInfo"]
[TR]
[TD="class: StoreResultsListed"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Dav4]

This place may have DriStall or StallDry or how ever you identify it. It is pumice that is used in horse stalls. I get mine from Southern States store. This place came up with a search for Southern States store.

Dowdle's Farm Suppy
3431 Georgia Highway
Franklin, NC

[TABLE="class: StoreSearchResultsInfo"]
[TR]
[TD="class: StoreResultsListed"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

If you can find Dry Stall, get it...it's as good as lava, imo.

 

[GrimLore]

Soil threads are always interesting. SO many combo's are good for diff apps and such. I do not post suggestions because I don't think anyone here could wrap their heads around what we use in general but I glean off some thoughts and do admit I play a bit with different things I read in these soil related threads

 

[Beetleman72]

See if you can work it out with the baseball coach, the stuff is used to dress the fields and they undoubtedly have a source for it.

I asked him about that and he said they get dump trucks filled with calcate clay instead of bags of turface.

 

[Beetleman72]

Sorry to disagree. The mix only fill voids down allowed by the minimum sized particle. Without the fines, the mix should remain aerated and free draining. That is why several people just sift with window screen and still have good results.

I totally agree. I sift out the fines and the big stuff and I've never had the slightest problem with compaction with this mix. Besides the only thing in the mix that might be up to 1/4 inch is the permatill. A half inch sized rock isn't going to fit through a half inch screen without some help so I would say the variation of sized particales is minimal. At most its 1/16th to 1/4 inch. I get one day of wetness if its sunny maybe two if its cloudy

 

[Beetleman72]

Personally, I don't like the shape of your particles. They're all sharp, not rounded. Round particles will hold the air space between particles. Sharp particles will settle. And eliminate the air space between particles. I also agree that the size of the particles should be more uniform.

I use "Boon's Mix". It is composed of scoria (lava), pumice, and akadama. These are all round or oval particles. No pine bark.

I sift each of my components by size using the standard bonsai soil sifter separately. Once each component has been sifted and separated by size of particle, then I mix them together. So a particular sized bucket of pumice will be mixed with akadama and lava that all passed thru the same screen (but not the next smallest.) Yes, it's a pain in the rear! But I get a uniform sized soil mix. I usually end up with 3 sizes: 1) Very large particles that I can use as a "drainage layer" in the bottom of large pots; 2: My pine and confer size (this about "pea" sized; and 3: a smaller size I use for deciduous trees such as zelkova and maples (about "BB" sized). Anything that passes thru the smallest screen (like window screening) is too small and is discarded.

I realize that there's a lot of bad info out there but I read somewhere that when the roots encounter sharp particles it causes them to split and have better ramification. Can anyone confirm or disspell this?

 

[Beetleman72]

This place may have DriStall or StallDry or how ever you identify it. It is pumice that is used in horse stalls. I get mine from Southern States store. This place came up with a search for Southern States store.

Dowdle's Farm Suppy
3431 Georgia Highway
Franklin, NC

[TABLE="class: StoreSearchResultsInfo"]
[TR]
[TD="class: StoreResultsListed"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Haha well u nailed my location almost exactly. Dowdles is walking distance from my house, however he just went out of business a couple months ago, but thanks so much for the sources!

 

[Beetleman72]

They have a bunch of pretty small lava rock there at dowdles feed and seed but since they have been closed I've been trying to figure out how to buy some lava rock from him but he is never there and isn't in the phone book. Hopefully ill get lucky one day and drive by while he is there.

 

[Dav4]

I read somewhere that when the roots encounter sharp particles it causes them to split and have better ramification. Can anyone confirm or disspell this?

Bonsai myth # 33....

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Well you might try:

Reeves Hardware
149 Mill Street
Clayton, GA

[TABLE="class: StoreSearchResultsInfo"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Just do a search for Southern States and then open the one that says, "store locator". Enter zip code and bingo!

 

[Paradox]

Soil composition tends to be a passionate topic around here.
Do I dare respond?.....lol

First, I refuse to pay a truckload of money on adakama or some other fancy material. Turface and drystall are not available near me so Ive had to be a bit inventive.

My soil mixture has changed a bit since I started.

Right now I use a mixture of gravel between 1/8 and 1/4 of an inch, coarse sand and sifted pine bark for my conifers. Its about 2:2:1+ gravel, sand, bark

For deciduous that like a little more moisture, I use less gravel or no gravel and add in either a bit of top soil sometimes with peat moss added depending on the species. The ratio here is around 4:2:2 Sand, gravel, compost or peat.

The conifer mixture seems to drain very well and depending on the conditions, it allows me to water every other day or two. The deciduous can go about a day longer before it needs water.

I am able to purchase the sand and gravel very inexpensively from a local sand and gravel place. I can go there and pick it up myself with the truck to save on delivery and to get smaller quantities than they generally like to deliver.

Its pea gravel so it has to be sifted. When I sift, about half is between 1/8 and 1/4 inch. The rest is larger. Anything bigger than about 3/8 is discarded and the part between 1/4 and 3/8 Ill use in the deciduous mix just to give the soil a bit more structure. The pine bark and peat I get from a local feed and garden supply store (its finer than the Home Depot brands so I like it better) The topsoil I get from Home Depot.

So far the trees seem to like it and grow fine with it.

 

[fourteener]

I realize that there's a lot of bad info out there but I read somewhere that when the roots encounter sharp particles it causes them to split and have better ramification. Can anyone confirm or disspell this?

Plant roots do the split in water, so what's the explanation there right ? I think it's a myth. Are roots growing so fast that they accelerate into a sharp object and split? I don't think so! Glad you asked the question. It feels like an old tale that gets repeated, can't imagine much truth to it. Willing to be corrected, but would like to see a time lapse video of it actually happening.

 

[Adair M]

The lava rock I use is sold as "pitcher's mound top dressing". It's screened and sold in 50 pound bags by Beam Clay. see www.beamclay.com

Beam Clay is in New Jersey, but I'm sure you could call them to find if there is a local distributer. My local bonsai shop carries it, so that's where I get mine.

Lava rock has the advantage over pea gravel in that it's a hollow structure, so it's a lot lighter, and it allows water in the particles and offers superior aeration. It's rough in texture, so the roots have something to grab on to.

 

[Poink88]

I asked him about that and he said they get dump trucks filled with calcate clay instead of bags of turface.

Ask them if they would sell by the (5 gallon) bucket full. You might be surprised how cheap they can sell it.

 

[dick benbow]

coupla comments just for something different to consider. And that is what your various materials can bring to the table unbeknownst to you.

Example: Pine bark that was stripped from trees which were transported for processing in salt water. true story and confirmed by lab analysis when transplanted trees were quickly showing signs of distress.

Volcanic stone with high levels of boron. Same process of learning the problem, by analysis after signs of distress.

I'm not sayng this type of stuff is ramphant but happens often enough to make one need to be aware.

I can't bring in akadama thru the port of seattle so was caught short this year. So this is a popular topic as more and more government regulators scrutinize imports. I always paid the extra cost for akadama because I had the best luck with it. So if you can still get it I suggest always keeping a year's stock in reserve.

I had to repot a few trees this year using pummice in the mixture. Stuff is so light that it works it's way up to the top in increasing numbers of which I'm not too happy about.

 

[Beetleman72]

Plant roots do the split in water, so what's the explanation there right ? I think it's a myth. Are roots growing so fast that they accelerate into a sharp object and split? I don't think so! Glad you asked the question. It feels like an old tale that gets repeated, can't imagine much truth to it. Willing to be corrected, but would like to see a time lapse video of it actually happening.

Oh yes my roots grow at least like 40 MPH hahaha. I'm pretty sure that I read that on the bonsai learning center here in Carolina on the soil PDF. Anyway thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Beetleman72]

Ask them if they would sell by the (5 gallon) bucket full. You might be surprised how cheap they can sell it.

I am def going to try that but my fear is that it'll be like a few fired clay particles and then the rest will just be small clay particles and cristiline silica like the oil dry but ill go see him this week and see what he can do for me

 

[Beetleman72]

coupla comments just for something different to consider. And that is what your various materials can bring to the table unbeknownst to you.

Example: Pine bark that was stripped from trees which were transported for processing in salt water. true story and confirmed by lab analysis when transplanted trees were quickly showing signs of distress.

Volcanic stone with high levels of boron. Same process of learning the problem, by analysis after signs of distress.

I'm not sayng this type of stuff is ramphant but happens often enough to make one need to be aware.

I can't bring in akadama thru the port of seattle so was caught short this year. So this is a popular topic as more and more government regulators scrutinize imports. I always paid the extra cost for akadama because I had the best luck with it. So if you can still get it I suggest always keeping a year's stock in reserve.

I had to repot a few trees this year using pummice in the mixture. Stuff is so light that it works it's way up to the top in increasing numbers of which I'm not too happy about.

Noted, wow that's crazy about the pine bark, I dont currently use lava in my mix. What components do you use?

 

[KennedyMarx]

It seems like size difference between soil particles should be within a certain spectrum to avoid compaction. I have used particles between 1/8" and 1/4" with no problems. As long as you don't have something tiny like sand or loam I don't imagine the mix compacting to the point of impeding drainage or root growth. Just put the soil ingredients in a plastic cup with some drainage holes and see how it looks after watering.

 

[Anthony]

Iris Cohen,

mentioned the Ball Bearing effect, on IBC. The idea being that all the inorganic particles have roughly the same size and being smooth, like ball bearings. Another lady in Europe, uses the Lecca balls.

So we tested the idea. Using aquarium "gravel" from China, and a small quantity of compost, on a local willow leaf type ficus. The expected situation is that the compost will slowly "melt" and the roots will take over the exmpty space.
The result for the first year has been positive, though the roots keep expanding and throwing out the stones.

With this ficus, no problems were encountered with the plant falling out of the container, in strong breezes.
The pot is also one of those Chinese types with a coarse interior.
If it were smooth on the interior, then a tool would have been used to leave furrows on the inside.

As a plus, the roots also locked down the moss.

Anyhow, thus far, it works. Growth on the tree is constant and drainage excellent.

Additionally, a local stone type that is like a hardened porous clay, bonded with calcium, also at the same size of particles, will grow a Tamarind. The organic part is sprinkled on by the spoonfuls, and left to decay in.

I have hired a large centipede [ as we call them, a congaree ] to deliver rounded particles of fecal matter. So I am using that as the organic material.
Will keep the group informed.
Good Evening.
Anthony