OUTDOOR PROPOGATION USING DIFFERENT HYDROPONIC GROWING MEDIA

[cmeg1]

So the air layer was to see if it would force strong nebari? Any bottom-reduced produce good lateral roots?
I take it the last photo is your next trial, hee hee.

Air-layer was very basic technique,though I’m very excited for this.

This is a thread for new media types( hydroponic)
Like the stonewool…..and I am very excited for the black Rootpouch brand self prruning fabric!
Just look inside the bonsai pot……..The air-layer should prune itself perfectly like the pine did (last picture)in a Rootpouch brand pot…(I just cut up a Rootpouch and lined the bonsai pot)…Rootpouch brand are the only ones that prune by entrapment…..not air-pruning.

 

[Cajunrider]

I just bought 96 2" rock wool plug. As soon as they arrive, I will put some BCs seed in them and see how well they grow.

 

[cmeg1]

I just bought 96 2" rock wool plug. As soon as they arrive, I will put some BCs seed in them and see how well they grow.

Nice air-pruning roots!
With stonewool you’ll want a digital ph meter to check you nutrient ph 5.5-6.5 every watering.

I have some fresh BC seeds gifted to me!
Germinating now……I’m gonna’ make seedling cuttings.

 

[nuttiest]

Will be nice to see how that works out, I am into peat pots this year for seeds. 5.5 ph water for the rockwool?
WOW i would need to adjust a lot to go THERE. But dying to try rokwool and need to order trays anyway so maybe I will check it out rockwool to get order up to free shipping level.

 

[cmeg1]

I just bought 96 2" rock wool plug. As soon as they arrive, I will put some BCs seed in them and see how well they grow.

The 3&4” are awesome for growing seedlings……. I seen like a 10 foot tall bean or pepper plant in a 6 inch cube of Rockwool on the Internet somewhere it’s because the Stonewool can hold so much nutrients and the roots really airpruned it makes a huge difference it’s awesome to grow out ssedlings in say a 3or 6 inch cube like I have some larch that I’m literally envisioning 1 inch trunks in a 3 inch cube of Stonewool it’ll be awesome

 

[Cajunrider]

The 3&4” are awesome for growing seedlings……. I seen like a 10 foot tall bean or pepper plant in a 6 inch cube of Rockwool on the Internet somewhere it’s because the Stonewool can hold so much nutrients and the roots really airpruned it makes a huge difference it’s awesome to grow out ssedlings in say a 3or 6 inch cube like I have some larch that I’m literally envisioning 1 inch trunks in View attachment 471922a 3 inch cube of Stonewool it’ll be awesomeView attachment 471925

Wow. I have some maple cuttings that @Mellow Mullet gave me. I am going to get some big cube and transfer them over.

 

[August]

Hey @cmeg1 ! I have a super beginner's question. Have been following for a bit and seen your success with stonewool; today I happened to be at the hydroponics store and picked a "flat" of it up.
I plan on starting seeds and cuttings with it to see if I like it. So, a couple questions:

I understand that the pH needs to be between 5.5-6.5 when watering; when you water, do you water overhead like a tree or "flood" them like a hydroponics table?

And when you eventually report, with the wool as your "field-soil" per se, what's the process like for sorting out the roots? Would you gravitate more towards "slip-potting"?

And lastly, I'm realizing I should have gotten the "cubes" with the silver foil like you have. Do you think it would be better to start a variety of seeds / mix of seeds and cuttings all at once? I might end up cutting them up

Thank you, sorry for clogging the thread.

 

[Zelrod]

I can't answer all your questions but I think CMeg1 is using an ebb and flow system which means he floods the tray a few times a day but I don't know the specifics of his timer or other details of his set-up. He goes over a lot of things on the first couple pages of the thread.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/o...nt-hydroponic-growing-media.50282/post-873335

 

[cmeg1]

Hey @cmeg1 ! I have a super beginner's question. Have been following for a bit and seen your success with stonewool; today I happened to be at the hydroponics store and picked a "flat" of it up. View attachment 472432
I plan on starting seeds and cuttings with it to see if I like it. So, a couple questions:

I understand that the pH needs to be between 5.5-6.5 when watering; when you water, do you water overhead like a tree or "flood" them like a hydroponics table?

And when you eventually report, with the wool as your "field-soil" per se, what's the process like for sorting out the roots? Would you gravitate more towards "slip-potting"?

And lastly, I'm realizing I should have gotten the "cubes" with the silver foil like you have. Do you think it would be better to start a variety of seeds / mix of seeds and cuttings all at once? I might end up cutting them up

Thank you, sorry for clogging the thread.

The aok plugs do better with a smart tray in a 10x20 flat with no holes….. With overhead watering the Salt would fried a little seedlings in a couple of hours so you definitely dunk a smart tray into a 10 x 20 tray or some type of a reservoir……. You’re right ph is everything…. With seedlings keep the solution at half strength or better yet if you have an EC meter below 1.0……. Germinating seeds need even less like .4 or .5

Salt will definitely kill any foliage..


The AOK plugs will fit in the Grodan smart tray squares all 72 over there quite nice……. The cubes will not set in these trays at all there isn’t a size to fit them.

I have several these trays that’s what I elevate my Daisy Flats on it which is what I put the Cubes in…..
Check the link

https://www.amazon.com/Grodan-GL56707445-Gro-Smart-Tray-Insert/dp/B004PTFZ48

 

[cmeg1]

THE OUTDOOR EBB & FLOW IS PUT TOGETHER FOR 2023 GROW SEASON TODAY!!!!!


After doing ao I decided to bring out everything I had.

Japnese Larch.These 3” blocks will be awesome with 1” trunks in them.

My pine crop is late this season,but for good measure.Although I have over 100.
The growhouse gets overhauled next week.

These will be fine in the chilly air.The kabudachi had an asesome start and will be humongous and fused and nice for Winter sale.Making tones more.

It is good getting these kabudachi started early…….greatly encourages their vigor so early in the season.

 

[cmeg1]

SIBERIAN ELM GETTING STRONG
(Despite a little magnesium deficiency)

I really like the ‘spoonfeeding’ aporoach to treating plant deficiencies.
The secret is to keep a close watch an as soon as you soot one treat it appropriately.

I deduced this to be a magnesium deficiency since yellow spots and green mid-veins.

The best treatment I have for this is very strong doses of a vitamin B-magnesium sulphate product I always have on hand.I use it all the time,but for deficiency I increase to 1/2 tsp per gallon every other watering.
Should do the trick!!!

The tree is getting vigourous being so full at the start of the season from indoor co2.
When I bring it outdoors the growth just halts for awhile,but it continues to photosynthesize and buikd much energy reserves befor I ultimately trim back to shape again……I will wait months if it allows though……this bushy growth so early is very beneficial for the energy reserves its producing since is not assimilating any NPK for growing and shoot extension.HIGH BRIX ENERGY BUILDS!!!!
Exciting.

 

[Arlithrien]

I tried starting seeds in rockwool cubes this season and had difficulty timing the watering. When I water them, it's too wet and rots the roots. When I let it dry it can easily become bone dry and suck the life out of the seedlings.

I know there's a learning curve to this, I remember going through it with normal potting soil when I first started. But I felt potting soil was more forgiving with watering.

 

[Srt8madness]

I'm done with Rockwool. It's useful for technical high maintenance grow operations like Curtis', but for the hobbyist it is far too finicky IMO.

 

[cmeg1]

Rockwool needs ph…….5.5-6.5 with every watering……and elevated so they drain and air-prune

 

[Ming dynasty]

the seed grown regular ( non cutting) Japanese Black Pine are GREAT!!!

So,these only had a couple mnth head start indoors befor spring last season……currently in seco mnd grow season. I am very astonished by the size and quality quite frankly …..the seaweed kelp regular foliation sprays are producing very ,very nice backbuds on nearly all of them and honestly they’re probably the best keepers.

Very great size on these for second year I am impressed and happy with a stonewool honestly I think it is actually great these have dried down nearly bone dry from the outside appearance a few times, but I guess the insides of the stonewool still had enough coolness to keep the roots alive and I’m surprised at their size to be honest.Backbuds shooting out of the wool on a coupme of them making a nice low clump appearance.

And from all these happy results I’ve decided to grow a bunch of regular seedlings like these for fall sale ,along with another crop of cuttings …..the regular seedlings should be fine I will give them a much longer start in the CO2 and next year should have phenomenal backbudding and be of good health in the stonewool…… The stonewool will be chock-full of roots and literally be volcanic stone and rooting mass and not be a soggy issue!!!
View attachment 437764View attachment 437765View attachment 437766View attachment 437767View attachment 437768View attachment 437769

You’re getting a lot of growth and back budding, is it even necessary to do cutting on seedlings for JBP?

 

[cmeg1]

You’re getting a lot of growth and back budding, is it even necessary to do cutting on seedlings for JBP?

The Seedling Cuttings have more lower budding for some reason you can put a seedling into some stone wool but to get it very short sprouting you got a put some strong blue light on it and it’s really really dwarf it but you always still get at least a half inch stem on them if not an inch

 

[Ming dynasty]

The Seedling Cuttings have more lower budding for some reason you can put a seedling into some stone wool but to get it very short sprouting you got a put some strong blue light on it and it’s really really dwarf it but you always still get at least a half inch stem on them if not an inch

Thank you for the clarification

 

[cmeg1]

BURNING BUSH AIR-LAYERS


Put a ringbark girdle on about 10 euonymous alatus…..40 more to do over the next week or so.

Still trying to find ways of getting a high quantity of these going.
This should work fine!!!!
Was quite easy…. just have to slip the stonewooll cubes over the shoots before the leaves pop out.

 

[ZombieNick]

Wow very interesting, thanks for the thread and updates. I have experience growing hydroponics and have always wondered about applying it to trees. I have a good amount of equipment packed away since my landlord wasn't too happy with the plants I was growing before... I have some questions, apologize if these were answered already, I just skimmed through the thread.

Looks like you are using a recirculating ebb and flow system. Do you keep the plants continuously submerged, or do you allow for dry back periods? Have you tried drain-to-waste? Curious on your experience and reasoning as to which method would be the best for young trees.

Rockwool vs Coco Coir. Have you experimented with both? Also curious here as I have read pros and cons for both.

Finally, what is the reason for girdling seedlings so young? I have seen this technique for air layers but this is the first I am seeing on young seedlings.

Appreciate any insights you have, please keep updating this thread!

 

[cmeg1]

Wow very interesting, thanks for the thread and updates. I have experience growing hydroponics and have always wondered about applying it to trees. I have a good amount of equipment packed away since my landlord wasn't too happy with the plants I was growing before... I have some questions, apologize if these were answered already, I just skimmed through the thread.

Looks like you are using a recirculating ebb and flow system. Do you keep the plants continuously submerged, or do you allow for dry back periods? Have you tried drain-to-waste? Curious on your experience and reasoning as to which method would be the best for young trees.

Rockwool vs Coco Coir. Have you experimented with both? Also curious here as I have read pros and cons for both.

Finally, what is the reason for girdling seedlings so young? I have seen this technique for air layers but this is the first I am seeing on young seedlings.

Appreciate any insights you have, please keep updating this thread!

Yes this is an ebb and flow….pump for circulation and aerator stone and heater in the resevoir.

The daisy trays full of mini delta blocks are put into the flood table when they need water and then they are removed….if using a small flood table.
The growhouse table is large enough to fit 16 daisy trays in there and they can actually stay there…….although that is actually when I elevate them on Grodan Smart Tray Inserts so they do not sit in puddles which has a tendency to activate anaerobic bacteria and can cause ph issues from root contamination.
Also there is amazing air-layering properties of a Stonwool block elevated on a Smart Tray Insert.

I have used drain to waste…the problem at the time when I was using tents was always puddles of water that needed a shop vac to drain it out….50% more work.

The stonewool and ebb and flow is excellent.

The pure perlite#2 and stonwool mini-blocks are my favorite medias……perlite in an 1pint size Rootpouch is incredible…..needs a Rootpouch or else perlite gets into pumps.
I have mixed in large grade course vermiculite for water retention.

I am very big on calcium uptake as it is a natural bio fungicide in many ways…especially with tech to get it into plants 1000 more X.
I have heard of coir leaching calcium and needing enhanced specialized ‘for coir’ fertilizers.

Girdling or ringbarking is beneficial on many different size trees.In the Stonewool mini-blocks I have deemed ringbarking almost unneccesary.They have no taproot when grown in an 1.5” mini-block of stonewool and the trunk girth is quite amazing..( see last photo)….although I still do it sometimes.

Ringbark is definately handy for propogation such as with bushes as that is its original invention so to speak.