Potential for World Class?

[A Random User]

With all the talk over what it takes to make a world class tree or not. I thought visually it would be fun to see what others thought of what makes a piece of material good or not good. If one would like to share any comments, I think it be useful to hear what others look for in deciding the potential of a tree.

Now obviously the tree posted will not be a world class tree... just my own. I will not go into details over how much or little was paid for it, how many years development was spent, what something natural or man made, or even what type of tree it is, etc. until perhaps we have voted. Reason being, that if a judge was given this tree to try and award, they would not have this information in front of them.

This is not an I gotcha survey... Instead just merely a question of whether one thinks a piece of material is good, and has something in it that they could see at some future point being a really awesome tree. Survey is open to everyone of course, and it would be great if those starting off chimed in as well as those who are more advanced. So, perhaps we could as well see the differences in the varying stages of the Art. Also, if you don't think the tree has potential to be a good tree and want to chime in with why, I think that would be relevant as well. Just ask that one addresses the tree and the question, and plays fair.
Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!

Here is the tree in question.

 

[Stickroot]

With all the talk over what it takes to make a world class tree or not. I thought visually it would be fun to see what others thought of what makes a piece of material good or not good. If one would like to share any comments, I think it be useful to hear what others look for in deciding the potential of a tree.

Now obviously the tree posted will not be a world class tree... just my own. I will not go into details over how much or little was paid for it, how many years development was spent, what something natural or man made, or even what type of tree it is, etc. until perhaps we have voted. Reason being, that if a judge was given this tree to try and award, they would not have this information in front of them.

This is not an I gotcha survey... Instead just merely a question of whether one thinks a piece of material is good, and has something in it that they could see at some future point being a really awesome tree. Survey is open to everyone of course, and it would be great if those starting off chimed in as well as those who are more advanced. So, perhaps we could as well see the differences in the varying stages of the Art. Also, if you don't think the tree has potential to be a good tree and want to chime in with why, I think that would be relevant as well. Just ask that one addresses the tree and the question, and plays fair.
Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!

Here is the tree in question.

That single live vein, with a single branch right at the end, as wide as the vein itself! Very nice!

 

[coh]

I'm not going to pretend to know whether this could be considered "world class" now or in the future, but I will say that I like it a lot...and would be very happy to have it in my collection.

Also, I think judges would probably have some basic information available to them, such as species. I'd like to know that at some point.

Chris

 

[larlamonde]

I'm not going to pretend to know whether this could be considered "world class" now or in the future, but I will say that I like it a lot...and would be very happy to have it in my collection.

Also, I think judges would probably have some basic information available to them, such as species. I'd like to know that at some point.

Chris

agreeed

 

[sorce]

I can't consider it WORLD class, but it could be Regional Class!

Using carving to create taper, is difficult to make visually correct. And it still lacks taper.

Add a fear(mostly because of the unknowns), that it will rot out fast in old Florida, leaves the future in question too.

Now, would I like to own and work it?
Most definitely.

But I would repot it and SMASH THE POT!

This is an excellent excersize!

Sorce

 

[music~maker]

This is a fantastic tree. The live vein is an amazing touch. My only fear with a branch like that is that it so defines the tree that if it ever dies back, the tree's design could be in jeopardy, at least for a while. But then again, it would probably just end up a jin and it looks incredible now, so who cares? ;-)

As far as any kind of critique goes, it's really a solid specimen. The carving is very well done. It still looks like it was worked on, but the quality is so high that it doesn't matter - nature will rough it up a bit and take care of that in a few years anyway.

I like that it has such a well-balanced canopy on top of an ancient-looking trunk. Both of those things take a fair amount of work to achieve, and this has both. It really just needs refinement work from here. I'd love to see what it looks like after 4-5 years of ramification work, but this is already a show-worthy tree imho.

I am also very curious about the species.

 

[Cadillactaste]

We're comparing world class...yet it seems unfinished without moss at the base...lacks taper. Would I like it on my bench. Sure...but still would see ones of higher caliber of bonsai finding it lacking in some way. But it's a nice tree. The potential of keeping rot at bay...not knowing the species and how it reacts to deadwood...also would factor in. The way the base of it meets the soil seems...off. So not sure how one would judge it. Though in my world...I would still enjoy it. Because no one but me would see it from my back yard.

 

[BobbyLane]

At this point i think the large dead wood feature looks a little man made, this area certainly needs refinement work, but there is only so much can be done, as a large chunk of the wood has been carved out already. the main branch at the front hasnt been left with much live bark and could possibly die off, leaving a large empty area of 'in your face' dead wood. I also think the lime sulphur is a little over the top, i would like to see it broken up in areas, maybe even some darker hollow bits could be introduced. depending on the species, im not sure the amount of LS used is needed. it has the look of a very old tree, but the bits ive mentioned spoil it. it has great potential to be much better, im no expert but id love to have it and work on it. i dont think it has the potential to be world class, i think too much has been done to it.

 

[A Random User]

I'm not going to pretend to know whether this could be considered "world class" now or in the future, but I will say that I like it a lot...and would be very happy to have it in my collection.

Also, I think judges would probably have some basic information available to them, such as species. I'd like to know that at some point.

Chris

You are correct they would have tree and species identity.
I added this in as an after thought, the part that reads "or even what type of tree it is" and forgot to reword the rest.
Because often I feel there is a sort of Bias in Bonsai over particular types of species, and what one likes...
and just felt it would be cool to hear comments based on just the tree regardless of what it is.

 

[Vance Wood]

As it stands today, pretty, much only collected trees seem to have the qualities necessary to elevate them to "World Class". Of those most are going to be conifers.

 

[Adair M]

One thing that bothers me is we see the nebari on the front tree, but we don't see anything of the secondary tree. Is it a true twin trunk? Or two trees planted very close together? Can't tell. The secondary trunk should be off to side, not coming up from straight behind.

 

[M. Frary]

Eight branches. Some taper. Lots of deadwood (natural or man made it still looks good). Decent surface rootage.
If it were 4 feet tall and a juniper it would be a top contender at the next artisans cup.

 

[markyscott]

This is fun.

I don't mind the carving to create taper - it's believably done. The vast amount of deadwood though is more reminiscent of a conifer than a broadleaf tree -I find that a bit jarring and unatural, but I think I could get past that. Generally, the twin is coming off the side, but I don't mind it rotated a bit to the back. In general, very creative work to make something striking out of what probably started out as unremarkable material.

So, I like the tree, but it's just beginning its bonsai journey. It's bonsai youth is betrayed by the straightness and lack of ramification of some of the branches. The moss around the trunk may be there because either its rootball has been recently reduced or in an effort to encourage surface roots to improve the nebari. In either case a young bonsai. The broadleaf trees I've seen that really move me have really inspiring ramification and nebari, both of which this tree lacks right now and will only come through many years of work. Because of all this it's hard to call it world class, but it looks like a very satisfying project.

I hope to see some before pictures - I bet we will all be surprised!

Scott

 

[M. Frary]

I bet we will all be surprised!

He does do some great transformations with what is usually what most people would pass up.

 

[A Random User]

I hope to see some before pictures - I bet we will all be surprised!

Scott

Man, I gotta be honest, I don't think I have any before pictures... will have to look.

As I mentioned earlier this was not a "I gotcha moment"... just thought it would be good to discuss Bonsai and critique trees.

Don't want to go into comments as of yet, will see if any others would like to chime in.

 

[markyscott]

Man, I gotta be honest, I don't think I have any before pictures... will have to look.

As I mentioned earlier this was not a "I gotcha moment"... just thought it would be good to discuss Bonsai and critique trees.

Don't want to go into comments as of yet, will see if any others would like to chime in.

No prob Mr. Grass. But if you find some, I'd love to see it's beginnings.

Scott

 

[Djtommy]

I think it's a nice tree but if you are serious about the question weather we think it's worldclass material you should show it from several sides. You can not judge a material to its full potential from 1 picture. Nebari is also mostly unknown. Can not see. I assume you are improving it with all the moss at the Base?
Actually it looks a bit like you pulled those roots away from th e trunk to widen the base. Could be wrong though.
But i like where it's going.

Anyway I do think it can end up in a show for sure. But not at the highest level.
And deffinatly not in that pot..don't like the pot.

 

[erb.75]

this is an awesome tree. I don't understand why everyone thinks you have to have a conifer to be world class. I like deciduous trees a lot more.

It's a world class tree to me? The image would be improved with a carpet of green moss at the base. I don't immediately think "this tree is less good without cookie cutter taper". There is artificial taper with the smaller deadwood on top. I'd like the back trunk to have a little more deadwood to match the front tree? Maybe?

I like the pot, but a pot that highlights the deadwood would look better...either with more white in the pot mixed with the bark color...or more texture to match the deadwood...for a perfect match

 

[Vance Wood]

He does do some great transformations with what is usually what most people would pass up.

Yes but the proof is how well do these transformations endure? Do they survive the process. This one seems a bit severe. Sometimes in our quest to produce the ultimate tree we forget that the tree itself may not be able to endure that transformation. I do not question the artistry but I am a bit taken back by the horticulture.

 

[Vance Wood]

this is an awesome tree. I don't understand why everyone thinks you have to have a conifer to be world class. I like deciduous trees a lot more.

It's a world class tree to me? The image would be improved with a carpet of green moss at the base. I don't immediately think "this tree is less good without cookie cutter taper". There is artificial taper with the smaller deadwood on top. I'd like the back trunk to have a little more deadwood to match the front tree? Maybe?

I like the pot, but a pot that highlights the deadwood would look better...either with more white in the pot mixed with the bark color...or more texture to match the deadwood...for a perfect match

Very few non conifers have the kinds of characteristics that make them world class. The world class super model probably will not weigh in at two-hundred and fifty-pounda and be four foot tall. There may be a few people that find this image appealing, but in general the tall, svelte, buxom, and thin young lady will usually hold that title. All of these things are based on personal appeal to a majority of people.