Procumbens juvenile foliage?

[Baku1875]

The "scale" will eventually open up and become needle like. True nana doesn't make 100% scale foliage, if it does, you have something else other than Nana, no matter what you were told.

it only makes sense that if the varietal characteristics arent met, it's probably a different variety, probably heavily crossbred with chinensis or something.

 

[Lorax7]

Wow, really unique tree and phenomenal work, completely outside the box design. Did it start out as a raft?

That's the kind of tree that one can spend a REALLY long time looking at different angles, lots of effort going into 360 view not just front view, needs a video or in person to do it justice

a procumbens that bred through enough generations of chinensis to hold it's scale foliage for longer? Cloned from a tree in nature or done intentionally by breeders? Either way, it's a really cool variety of procumbens and definitely not typical at all

Maybe after a few more years of BNuttery we will have access to a 23andme type database of tree genetics. send in a cutting and find your tree's 4th bnut cousins progression threads

As far as I know, it did not start out as a raft. I was told by the seller that it had originally been a landscape tree.

I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen with the design. It was just getting to the point where I was really liking where it was headed and then one of the main branches got a big crack in it. I've wired it to stabilize the branch and hold it in place. Just have to wait and see what happens with it. If it pulls through, I just have to be patient and careful with it until the remaining live vein grows enough bulk to once again support the weight of the branch and hold it in place. If it doesn't survive, then I'll have to do a major redesign. I have no idea what broke the branch. It happened sometime during winter.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have a theory (loosely based on conclusions on my limited knowledge of junipers)that longer day duration in late autumn for regions closer to the equator can have an effect on foliage type for junipers, and when combined with low humidity, it's possible to retain/develop scale foliage as a greater % of total foliage.

So if ZombieNick's sensei is also in Los angeles, he would have the benefit of dry weather, and longer day duration in mid autumn, increasing the chances of scale foliage.

If someone on here has some knowledge on this, it would be interesting to hear

A few major cities and their late autumn day duration, and humidity

Rio
peak 13:30
May 15 11:01
shortest 10:43
humid

Miami
peak 13:45
Nov 15 10:53
shortest 10:32
humid

Los Angeles
peak 14:26
Nov 15 10:24
shortest 9:53
dry (more potential for scale foliage on juvi dominants?)

Amsterdam
peak 16:48
Nov 15 8:47
shortest 7:41
humid

Just some thoughts. It would be interesting to get a survey thread going of adult vs scale composition from different users and their different juniper types and map out a statistics based probability of foliage type.

I think US procumbens were hybridized with juniperus horizontalis. Italy and Spain can be arid and they have the needles.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I have never seen the scale foilage over here (Netherlands/Europe) and I've always wondered why the US procumbens does have scale foilage and the EU procumbens only have the needle like foilage.

 

[Tele]

What I learned:
- Procumbens hardly makes scale foliage unless you leave it alone and it must be rootbound
- Juvenile leaves might be better for photosynthesis.

Personally I like juvenile on a procumbens, but only on a procumbens.
Cut more / get more (especially juvenile)

 

[Lorax7]

What I learned:
- Procumbens hardly makes scale foliage unless you leave it alone and it must be rootbound
- Juvenile leaves might be better for photosynthesis.

Personally I like juvenile on a procumbens, but only on a procumbens.
Cut more / get more (especially juvenile)

It doesn’t need to be rootbound. The one I posted a photo of was repotted in the spring last year, which was before the juvenile foliage reverted back to mature foliage.

 

[Nivel]

I couldn't resist checking my Procumbens cuttings for scales and I found them . It is just a tiny area, 2-3 tips. Interesting.

 

[ZombieNick]

This thread is getting interesting. Don't be confused that the tree I posted is at all common, even in our environment. It is the only nana I have seen with this much scale foliage, and a lot of time, effort, and technique were needed to achieve it. What I do see commonly here in SoCal, which is closer to 50/50, is much different that the other posters are describing. Our nanas start 100% juvenile, but after they mature they seem to push both readily. Here are what I see commonly (no special treatment here, both have been recently pruned and repotted this year).

Juvenile tree, probably about 4 years old, a HomeDepot tree bought in 2019:

All juvenile, not a scale in sight.

A more mature tree, probably about 10 years old, bought as prebonsai from bonsai nursery in 2020:

This is how most of mine are (hard to get a good pic). It can't decide which way it wants to go. Tree is still in development, but I think at some point I am going to have to make a decision on what foliage I want to go for and start pruning. @Ruddigger I remember this tree from our club show, how much of a bitch is it to keep it all juvy?

 

[bdmatt]

Here's a picture of my teacher's nana procumbens, about 40+ years old. It has a majority of scale foliage. I prefer nanas having either juvenile or scale foliage, not both. The one thing I dislike about nanas is that they will grow both types foliage, even if I push for one type.


Here's a mature nana I had in my collection. It had equal parts juvenile and scale foiliage, which was quite annoying. The overall tree was beautiful, but the mix of foliage was harder appreciate.

 

[Clicio]

Well, I HAD to go to the garden and take a closer look.
All my Procumbens have tips that look like scales, but they grow and are in fact needles.
Interesting.

 

[Ruddigger]

@Ruddigger I remember this tree from our club show, how much of a bitch is it to keep it all juvy?

Its not that bad, as long as you stay on top of it. I have another where I neglected it and almost the whole apex went scale. I had to cut it all off and start over.

 

[Ruddigger]

@bdmatt I see you’re in Riverside, who is your teacher?

 

[bdmatt]

@bdmatt I see you’re in Riverside, who is your teacher?

I live in Riverside, but my teacher is in Grenada Hills, about 80 miles away. Vietnamese fellow, goes by Byron.