root rot
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Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Well, unless you care to share more information...you are more the one to answer that than us here.
Substrate : what does it consist of?
water regiment : How often are you watering?
Humidity trays : Use them? Do pots sit in water?
A lot of information we can't even begin to address. Location filled out in your profile page also allows one to adjust comments to your climate.
Substrate : what does it consist of?
water regiment : How often are you watering?
Humidity trays : Use them? Do pots sit in water?
A lot of information we can't even begin to address. Location filled out in your profile page also allows one to adjust comments to your climate.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Ball's in your court, not enough information. Usually root rot is caused by poor drainage and too much water, technically root rot is caused by a fungus that is caused by a lack of ventilation in the soil, AKA a soil with really poor dreainage and too much water, which encourages the fungus to grow and the fungus feeds on the roots of the tree and makes the soil smell like an unflushed toliet.
Victorim
Omono
I'm in zone 6 in the lower Hudson Valley. The tree I'm concern with right now is an Alberta Spruce that is coming out of dormancy. I think I have the wrong soil mix, too much humus. I'm thinking of re potting it but what would be a better soil mix. This may be the right season to repot it, but is it a good idea if the tree is weakened. I tried loosening the soil and I don't see many healthy roots at all. So what would be a better strategy? The apex looks very weak but the lower 2 branches look better. We've had a lot of rain lately and expecting more in the next few days.
The tree is about 25in. tall and has been the a 15in training pot for 3 years. Because of all the rain, the soil is very water logged. I'm uncertain on what to do next.
The tree is about 25in. tall and has been the a 15in training pot for 3 years. Because of all the rain, the soil is very water logged. I'm uncertain on what to do next.
Victorim
Omono
if a tree is in black sludge and the roots are poor, its the best time to repot. Sorry, again what are are you using at the moment, soil wise?
Maby a pic or two may help..
(I`d say bare root it and get it in inorganic now, but dont listen to me!
)
Maby a pic or two may help..
(I`d say bare root it and get it in inorganic now, but dont listen to me!
)
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I enthusiastically potted it 3 years ago when I first thought I caught the bonsai bug. So needless to say, I had no clue what I was doing. So it's not in any specific bonsai soil mix per say, maybe that's where I need the help. I keep on using too much peat moss maybe that's the problem. Putting it in an all inorganic soil sounds good, but then I think what about nutrients? But I think I will take the plunge and do it (against my instincts). Sand? Perlite? Chicken grit? Thanks.
Victorim
Omono
you give the nutrients
click the resourses button at the top and the first two downloads are some excellent info from scott on soil physics and inorganics... oh and perlite is viable, but.. yeah mabe not..
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Contrary to what some seem to be saying root rot is not caused by too much water as much as it is a combination of too much water and a soil mixture that has broken down. The short of it: Your soil has broken down and no longer breathes. WHAT CAUSES ROOT ROT IS NOT TOO MUCH WATER, what causes too root rot is the fungus fitaphotora (sp?)which can only grow where there is an abundance of moisture and poor circulation of air in the soil. I have known people who have lost trees because they insisted on keeping the soil too dry to control growth and prevent root rot.
It is this combination that causes the roots to rot. Again; root rot is not a condition it is a disease that must be cured and the cure is not always successful. It is for this reason most soils for conifers seem really gritty and can not be caused to bind together like bread dough no matter how hard you try to make a ball out of the stuff. If your soil mix turns into mud it's not right. It should always fall apart into it's component parts.
Here is what a healthy soil mix must/should do. The combination of elements must maintain their structure over at least three years. It must have a low field capacity, the amount of water it will retain over time, and this water must drain off quickly. When this happens properly the soil will breath. Every time the tree is watered the water will force the air out. As the water drains out air will be drawn into the soil and the soil will dry. As the soil drys it will require watering again repeating the cycle. This will set up an environment where this fungus cannot form.
Where you run into problems is when the soil starts to break down, and the structure becomes more compacted. As the soil compacts it drains more slowly and does not draw in air or expel water as quickly and the environment to breed this fungus becomes more favorable to it. I have found that Mugo Pines like a lot of water in that they need to breath as in the above cycle, but they do not like to be kept wet. I have always told people that I water my Mugos at least twice a day and in the heat of summer three times. I have never lost a Mugo to root rot.
It is not forbidden to use Composted Pine bark in a soil mix but no more than 30%. Then 50% can be Pumice, or red lava stone or Turface or Akadama if you can find the hard stuff, or a combination of all of the above and or 20% coarse quartz sand if you can find it. As to the nutrients: Those are added through fertilizer, almost any brand will do.
It is this combination that causes the roots to rot. Again; root rot is not a condition it is a disease that must be cured and the cure is not always successful. It is for this reason most soils for conifers seem really gritty and can not be caused to bind together like bread dough no matter how hard you try to make a ball out of the stuff. If your soil mix turns into mud it's not right. It should always fall apart into it's component parts.
Here is what a healthy soil mix must/should do. The combination of elements must maintain their structure over at least three years. It must have a low field capacity, the amount of water it will retain over time, and this water must drain off quickly. When this happens properly the soil will breath. Every time the tree is watered the water will force the air out. As the water drains out air will be drawn into the soil and the soil will dry. As the soil drys it will require watering again repeating the cycle. This will set up an environment where this fungus cannot form.
Where you run into problems is when the soil starts to break down, and the structure becomes more compacted. As the soil compacts it drains more slowly and does not draw in air or expel water as quickly and the environment to breed this fungus becomes more favorable to it. I have found that Mugo Pines like a lot of water in that they need to breath as in the above cycle, but they do not like to be kept wet. I have always told people that I water my Mugos at least twice a day and in the heat of summer three times. I have never lost a Mugo to root rot.
It is not forbidden to use Composted Pine bark in a soil mix but no more than 30%. Then 50% can be Pumice, or red lava stone or Turface or Akadama if you can find the hard stuff, or a combination of all of the above and or 20% coarse quartz sand if you can find it. As to the nutrients: Those are added through fertilizer, almost any brand will do.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You do have another problem: The tree you have chosen is not a real good candidate for a bonsai, few people have had success with them.
I just browsed through the resources and there is a wealth of information I can dig into. thank youn for your help.you give the nutrients
I now realize that. The branches do not keep their positions well, if at all. I want to try junipers this spring. I hope I will not repeat the same mistakes with the soil. Almost all my plants have some degree of root rot. Looks like I have a lot of learning to do and change my ways. Thanks for your help.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Just to restate what @Vance Wood is saying in a slightly different way - if your soil is good it is impossible to over-water because the water you add to the top of the soil immediately flows through the soil and out the bottom of the pot.
The corollary of this is if you water your trees and the water DOESN'T immediately flow right through your soil and out the bottom of the pot, it is time to change your soil / repot. Water should NEVER pool / collect in the pot. And if you water your tree and the water rolls off the top of the soil so that you have to keep watering until it gets "absorbed" by the soil - that is the worse sign of all.
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That may be my ultimate question then, what is good soil? Is it only its porosity?
The only inorganic materials I have at hand at the moment are sand (in various particle sizes) and chicken grit.
Today we are blessed with a beautiful sunny day, after many rainy days and more to come, so I wanted to do this repotting today. Do I get a vote of confidence with these materials?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I seem to be on everyone's ignore list but I will tell you anyway. I forwarded a dependable soil mix in post #9. If you don't like it I wont be heart broken, but I have given you a recipe for a workable soil mix. based on fifty years of experience with it. At this point I don't know what more you could want. With the exception of a few places, you cannot go out to your local bonsai store and pick up a bucket of dirt with the proper structure and ingredients. You have not indicated your location so we have no idea what kind of environmental conditions you may be facing and much information is based on the piece of info.
StoneCloud
Omono
Sometimes we must accept that the materials we have at hand are not the tools to fix our problem.
@Vance Wood did explain it wonderfully. That is exactly what is going on and how everything works.
You need Bonsai soil. If you do not have a place to buy it pre-made you can always mix your own (pumice, lava, very little pinebark will do for now) make sure it's 1/4 inch pieces and sift it so there is little to no dust left.
You said you are in the Hudson Valley (upstate NY I assume?)
@Vance Wood did explain it wonderfully. That is exactly what is going on and how everything works.
You need Bonsai soil. If you do not have a place to buy it pre-made you can always mix your own (pumice, lava, very little pinebark will do for now) make sure it's 1/4 inch pieces and sift it so there is little to no dust left.
You said you are in the Hudson Valley (upstate NY I assume?)
Vance, I was just telling my husband how much information all of you have already given me. I especially read to him your post #9 about what really causes the rot that it's not necessarily over watering.....
I'm not ignoring you or any of you. I'm just trying to make sense of all this info and how I can apply it to my current emergency situation and work with what I have at hand. I don't have lava rock or akadama or pumice, I wish I did. But they are costly and I'm too much of an amateur to make the investment. But on the other hand, that may very well be my problem: making only half of the effort. I just thought I could use what I have at hand.
I live in Middletown, NY, about 50 miles northwest of NYC. We get spells of wet weather and then we can get bone dry. I have a mid-size pond in my back yard which, I think, adds to the humidity.
I'm brand new at blogging and computers are not my favorite technology development. So I'm sure there is lot I need to explore and learn about this site.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Red lava is difficult to find but you can use something like crushed granit which is sold as chicken grit. You should have a feed store around you somewhere you should be able to find it there. If while there you can find a product called Dry Stall get that, it is pumice. Failing at that you need to use some form of material that looks like plain old Kitty Litter, or a product called Turface. The composted Pine bark can be found at almost any garden center. It is often sole as a product called garden compost.
I know a lot of people say it is not good to use this stuff but this philosophy is not forwarded out of knowledge but some sort of peculiar prejudice. Pine Bark Mulch will not hurt anything unless you use it by itself. Believe I have been growing all manner of trees in the mix I described to you since as early as 1972 in different forms.
The important thing is to pay attention to your situation. Let me ask this: Do you have drain holes in the pots you are using? I know this sounds like a dumb question until you run accros someone who does not have pots with drain holes.
I know a lot of people say it is not good to use this stuff but this philosophy is not forwarded out of knowledge but some sort of peculiar prejudice. Pine Bark Mulch will not hurt anything unless you use it by itself. Believe I have been growing all manner of trees in the mix I described to you since as early as 1972 in different forms.
The important thing is to pay attention to your situation. Let me ask this: Do you have drain holes in the pots you are using? I know this sounds like a dumb question until you run accros someone who does not have pots with drain holes.
wireme
Masterpiece
I've had spruce grow very well in granite grit and bark. Nowadays they are in more of a pumice based mix but they don't look any happier because of it. If anything I think they may have been healthier in granite.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
This is the product that I use. I do not use the chunky bark because it is still decomposing. That process uses Nitrogen from the soil. This stuff is decomposed mostly and does not give you that problem.
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