root rot

[sorce]

Sorry for the delay!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[zena]

Sometimes we must accept that the materials we have at hand are not the tools to fix our problem.

@Vance Wood did explain it wonderfully. That is exactly what is going on and how everything works.

You need Bonsai soil. If you do not have a place to buy it pre-made you can always mix your own (pumice, lava, very little pinebark will do for now) make sure it's 1/4 inch pieces and sift it so there is little to no dust left.

You said you are in the Hudson Valley (upstate NY I assume?)[/QUOTE

Red lava is difficult to find but you can use something like crushed granit which is sold as chicken grit. You should have a feed store around you somewhere you should be able to find it there. If while there you can find a product called Dry Stall get that, it is pumice. Failing at that you need to use some form of material that looks like plain old Kitty Litter, or a product called Turface. The composted Pine bark can be found at almost any garden center. It is often sole as a product called garden compost.

I know a lot of people say it is not good to use this stuff but this philosophy is not forwarded out of knowledge but some sort of peculiar prejudice. Pine Bark Mulch will not hurt anything unless you use it by itself. Believe I have been growing all manner of trees in the mix I described to you since as early as 1972 in different forms.

The important thing is to pay attention to your situation. Let me ask this: Do you have drain holes in the pots you are using? I know this sounds like a dumb question until you run accros someone who does not have pots with drain holes.

Thanks Vance, the above information is very helpful. I already have chicken grit and the pine bark. I didn't know about the Dry Stall but I will deffinatl

Red lava is difficult to find but you can use something like crushed granit which is sold as chicken grit. You should have a feed store around you somewhere you should be able to find it there. If while there you can find a product called Dry Stall get that, it is pumice. Failing at that you need to use some form of material that looks like plain old Kitty Litter, or a product called Turface. The composted Pine bark can be found at almost any garden center. It is often sole as a product called garden compost.

I know a lot of people say it is not good to use this stuff but this philosophy is not forwarded out of knowledge but some sort of peculiar prejudice. Pine Bark Mulch will not hurt anything unless you use it by itself. Believe I have been growing all manner of trees in the mix I described to you since as early as 1972 in different forms.

The important thing is to pay attention to your situation. Let me ask this: Do you have drain holes in the pots you are using? I know this sounds like a dumb question until you run accros someone who does not have pots with drain holes.

 

[StoneCloud]

any updates

 

[zena]

Thanks Vance, The above information is very helpful. I already have the chicken grit and the pine bark. I didn't know about the Dry Stall but I will certainly look into it.

Yes, the pot is in a gray bonsai training plastic pot. Although I think the holes are too small.
I did the repotting yesterday and I discovered the real reason for the problem. I did not clear out all of the old soil when I first moved it into the training pot. All of the damage was in this area. I've seen it decline in health since last year but was too afraid to repot it thinking that if I would leave it alone it would recover. I was wrong.

I washed all the soil out, cut all the damaged roots, disinfected the pot and repotted it in a mix of 50% caurse sand, 25% perlite and 25% pine bark. Dipped what ever roots were left in a rooting hormone and watered it with a solution of super thrive. That's the best I could do. The roots are devastated, not expecting for it to survive but I wanted to give it a chance.

It's in a protected area but we're expecting a lot of rain tomorrow. Don't know if that's good or bad.

I enjoy doing bonsai but I know I have not followed all the recommended all the do's and don'ts. There's no one in the area for feed back. The only feed back I have--the trees don't do well.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Vance Wood]

Too much rain, if it is not draining through the pot, can be disastrous. So; if a lot of rain is forecast it would be best to put the tree under shelter.

 

[Victorim]

Contrary to what some seem to be saying root rot is not caused by too much water as much as it is a combination of too much water and a soil mixture that has broken down. The short of it: Your soil has broken down and no longer breathes. WHAT CAUSES ROOT ROT IS NOT TOO MUCH WATER, what causes too root rot is the fungus fitaphotora (sp?)which can only grow where there is an abundance of moisture and poor circulation of air in the soil. I have known people who have lost trees because they insisted on keeping the soil too dry to control growth and prevent root rot.

It is this combination that causes the roots to rot. Again; root rot is not a condition it is a disease that must be cured and the cure is not always successful. It is for this reason most soils for conifers seem really gritty and can not be caused to bind together like bread dough no matter how hard you try to make a ball out of the stuff. If your soil mix turns into mud it's not right. It should always fall apart into it's component parts.

Here is what a healthy soil mix must/should do. The combination of elements must maintain their structure over at least three years. It must have a low field capacity, the amount of water it will retain over time, and this water must drain off quickly. When this happens properly the soil will breath. Every time the tree is watered the water will force the air out. As the water drains out air will be drawn into the soil and the soil will dry. As the soil drys it will require watering again repeating the cycle. This will set up an environment where this fungus cannot form.

Where you run into problems is when the soil starts to break down, and the structure becomes more compacted. As the soil compacts it drains more slowly and does not draw in air or expel water as quickly and the environment to breed this fungus becomes more favorable to it. I have found that Mugo Pines like a lot of water in that they need to breath as in the above cycle, but they do not like to be kept wet. I have always told people that I water my Mugos at least twice a day and in the heat of summer three times. I have never lost a Mugo to root rot.

It is not forbidden to use Composted Pine bark in a soil mix but no more than 30%. Then 50% can be Pumice, or red lava stone or Turface or Akadama if you can find the hard stuff, or a combination of all of the above and or 20% coarse quartz sand if you can find it. As to the nutrients: Those are added through fertilizer, almost any brand will do.

This is what I ment by "your roots are too wet". Sorry, maby should have thought, or explained more before chiming in.

 

[Vance Wood]

It's not a problem. I just felt that it was important to define the real issue of root rot and what it is. It's kind of like falling. Falling off a cliff will not kill you it is the abrupt stop at the bottom that does the job.

 

[zena]

Too much rain, if it is not draining through the pot, can be disastrous. So; if a lot of rain is forecast it would be best to put the tree under shelter.

I am having the most horrible time locating dry stall. I finely found an agway store that is ordering it for me. No doubt, I will have to sieve it right?

and about pine bark; I can't find a soil conditioner. Is fine pine mulch ok?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

One comment about red lava. It may be difficult to find in 1/4" pieces. It may not be difficult to find in 1" pieces for landscaping work. I have bought red lava before, dumped it out on my garage floor, and pulverized it by bouncing a sledge on it, then sifted it. A little bit of a hassle, but lava crushes easily, and it is easy enough to sweep up and sift. I wouldn't want to do it for a garbage can full, but I was able to fill a 5 gallon Home Depot bucket with sifted 1/4" pieces pretty quickly.

I just bought 100 lbs of it, pre-sifted 1/4" for $40 here in Southern Cal. Same amount of pumice cost $28.

But it isn't broadly available. Guy is selling it out of his garage

 

[Vance Wood]

I am having the most horrible time locating dry stall. I finely found an agway store that is ordering it for me. No doubt, I will have to sieve it right?

and about pine bark; I can't find a soil conditioner. Is fine pine mulch ok?

The Bark is OK, you are doing better than I, I have not been able to find the Dry Stall outside of ordering but you have gone and done that.