Safe T Sorb experiment

[Joe Dupre']

I bought a bag of this stuff from Tractor Supply after researching and finding out that some people use it in aquariums. Obviously, you wouldn't want to use anything that would break down rapidly and risk the health of your fish. Seeing that, I devised a little experiement. I put about a cup in a sealed plastic container and filled it with water. I also put a cup in an open container filled with water. The sealed container gets a mild rolling agitation every few days. The open container get flooded every day when I water. After a month and a half, there is very mild cloudiness in both conainers. No rapid breaking down that I can see. No sludge in the bottom of either container. The product remains hard, but will break apart if you take a pinch and really scrub it together.

I'm not suggesting anyone use Safe T Sorb. This test gives an anecdotal example. BUT, after seeing this, I am starting to use about 30% of it in my Bald Cypress training pots. I also added a smaller percentage to my homemade "potting soil" mix.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This product is 100% calcined clay, which would normally make it a great option.

However my understanding is that the piece size is much smaller than the 3/8" - 1/4" that most people look for in a soil blend.

 

[AZbonsai]

Is it cheaper to use?

 

[Michigan Bonsai]

You cans sift at 1/8 and lose half of the bag
but it is cheap!

 

[Joe Dupre']

I just seived the fines out in the smallest mesh of a 3 screen set and used it from there. The bag I have doesn't seem to have anything as big as 1/4". Every soil component I've ever used has been less than 1/4" with good success. It seems to me that big aggregate gives big holes between particles which , in turn, would seem to encourage bigger roots. Small aggregate= small holes= smaller roots. I make no scientific claims for any of this..................only success when I do it.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Can you freeze and thaw it for a couple times? For scientific purposes of course!
My lab supplier sells this kind of stuff and I want to know if it can handle the local weather before buying a bucket of the stuff.

 

[Michael P]

Safe-T-Sorb works as an aquarium substrate and in bonsai soil mixes for me. In bonsai soil it breaks down over a period of 3-4 years in my climate. It is not as hard as NAPA Floor-Dri, but has a much more pleasing color. For young trees in development that are frequently repotted it is good.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Well, we don't have to worry about that too much here, but I'll take one for the Team and freeze the samples. LOL We DID get down to 18 F this year, which is about an every-ten-year type of occurrence.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Here are the results. Safe T Sorb ..... unsifted but rinsed clean of dust .....1 month soaking in the same water. 3 freeze/ thaw cycles. I poured off most of the water. There's a little sludge but remaining particles are still very hard. Taking a pinch between your fingers and rubbing aggresively will slightly break up the particles.

My take. Will it break down ? Yes. Is the breakdown excessive? Probably not. Will I use it on some trees? Yes, mixed 50/50 with pine bark. Will I use it on my best trees? Maybe, at a lower percentage. Is it a viable alternative if other components are hard to source? I'd have to say yes.

If trees will be repotted every two to three years, I think it's a very workable product. Color is excellent. Size is on the smaller side. I've only just started to use it so long term success is just an educated guess. It will definitely be a component in my homemade "potting soil", which is what I use on almost all collected trees. Research shows that the clay it's made of has micro levels of nutrients that may be beneficial to trees. Only the trees know what those are.

 

[Michael P]

Joe, I agree iwth everything you say. I've using it in bonsai mix and other potted plant mix for 10+ years.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Ok, in the interest of accuracy here is more info. I let the mixture dry, sieved it through the same smallest screen again. I tried to seperate the dust from the <1/16" particles. This tells me that for long term use, this might not be the best material. Short term use for collected material or something that will be repotted often, this material should do fine. Might not be the best if your climate gives you dozens of freezing days per year.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Update: About two months in for the Safe T Sorb soaking in water. No sludge in the bottom of the container. There are some dissolved solids.......basically just muddy water. The particles appear to be approx. the same size as they went in and are still very hard. You can take a pinch and scrub it hard between your fingers and get some breakage, but you can do that with DE also.

I did a mid-season transplanting of a few pond cypress seedlings into a 50/50 mix of Safe T Sorb and pine bark. The trees seem to be doing well.

At this point, I'd have to give the product a thumbs up for collected material, trees in the grow-out stage or most any stage of bald or pond cypress.

 

[hinmo24t]

got a massive bag of oildri and it has been working great. $3.99 for a 30 lb bag therabouts at ACE hardware


nigel saunders uses the this type of stuff with just perlite and sometimes pine bark and his trees seem happy.

lots of frozen cycles in Canada and where i live too

 

[Eckhoffw]

Here my experiment with Oil Dri calcined clay. Right in line with what your doing here

Big box bonsai mix

This isn’t a dig specifically at him, but I don’t agree with this. He has a lot of branch loss and weak growths. His tropicals look great, but some of his deciduous and conifers have been lackluster. He has lost a fair number of trees. That said, some of the above is from his harsh winter and...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Eckhoffw]

Here my experiment with Oil Dri calcined clay. Right in line with what your doing here

Big box bonsai mix

This isn’t a dig specifically at him, but I don’t agree with this. He has a lot of branch loss and weak growths. His tropicals look great, but some of his deciduous and conifers have been lackluster. He has lost a fair number of trees. That said, some of the above is from his harsh winter and...

www.bonsainut.com

I have been happy with its performance, but I do believe it is important to mix in other components like pumice, lava, pear lite, etc. to prevent caking or clumps that form in soil when used alone. These areas become hydrophobic. Always dry unless you dunk it out!

 

[August44]

Good article Joe! I have tried the Napa stuff and find that what I got was a lot of fines and no size to the remainder after 1/8" screen. I have also tried Akadama, and it also has a lot of fines that need to be screened out IMO. It also is crazy expensive! Just so I understand, and from what I am reading we are using these products as a substrate that retains water for our mixes...more in the mix for deciduous and less for most conifers. If that is true, then this Safe T Sorb sound like a good alternative for a whole lot less money. Let me know if my thinking is off here.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Good article Joe! I have tried the Napa stuff and find that what I got was a lot of fines and no size to the remainder after 1/8" screen. I have also tried Akadama, and it also has a lot of fines that need to be screened out IMO. It also is crazy expensive! Just so I understand, and from what I am reading we are using these products as a substrate that retains water for our mixes...more in the mix for deciduous and less for most conifers. If that is true, then this Safe T Sorb sound like a good alternative for a whole lot less money. Let me know if my thinking is off here.

All I do with the 8822 is sift out the dust and smaller than 1/16". It definitely doesn't have much over 1/8". Seems to be working fine for 6 years and 60 plus trees. I've had more instances of the pine bark decomposing and causing slow drainage than any aggregate I've used. I tend to agree with Walter Pall on the soil mix. He uses basically the European version of Safe T Sorb with apparent success. My sole view on most things : If it works..........it works............period. Just because something may not be "the best" doesn't mean that it's completely useless.

 

[Joe Dupre']

One last pic. This is the sample that has been soaking in water for almost 2 months. I got most of the slight sludge over to the right. I'd have to guess that, dried out, there might be a rounded teaspoon of "mud" from over a cup of aggregate. Is that too much? Not sure, but I really don't think it would be problem. I have a hunch it would just get flushed out a little every day with good watering.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Who knows. That little bit of residue might contain some things that your tree can use. Only the tree knows for sure.

 

[Firstflush]

Whether is settles out or stays in solution/suspension, IMO it would be flushed.