Second Juniper Styling - Feedback Please (ignore previous post)

[Shibui]

I certainly use sacrifice branches while developing junipers but need to take care that the sacrifice branch(es) do not sap the strength of the parts you want to keep. You may need to prune or remove a sacrifice branch to allow the 'tree' to recover strength then allow sacrifice branch to grow again if you still need further trunk thickening.
Grow and chop to lower branches is also a form of using sacrifice branches. Sacrifice branches can be used to create dead wood when they have achieved the desired outcomes. In this case you should consider wiring the sacrifice branch while it is thin enough so you will have an attractive jin later.
Sacrifice branches from low on the trunk will assist with adding some taper. Sacrifice branches higher up will thicken the entire trunk. Use appropriate techniques to achieve desired outcomes.
Junipers are usually frustratingly slow to grow so don't be in a hurry.
Junipers do not need huge trunk base like we see in maples. Lack of taper and lack of nebari are accepted in junipers.

 

[one_bonsai]

So if I were to remove the lower branch and then cut here:





And let the two smaller branches grow long, would that thicken the trunk?

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

I think the best option for a decent development of a trunk was mentioned in one of previous posts. Instead of removing the top portion you should have let the apex run for a few meters (not a typo) while styling the bottom part. You still have the option but it will take a few more years. Select a runner in the top portion and let it run. Style the rest. Make more acute angles for the primary branches leaving the trunk and add more movement in them, left right, up and down. Do it so you have secondary branches on the outside of the curve. Fan out the secondary branches horizontally so backbudding can develop from there. The runner on top will eventually (think 5 to 10 years) thicken the trunk. You might add som shari along the whole trunk and widen it a bit at a time so you might end up with interesting material. There are a lot of lessons to be learned on this material. After this initial styling and wiring, and after the branches have set it saves you some years if you let things grow for 2 years in the ground (while keeping the keepers in check!!).

 

[Shibui]

Letting any branches grow long will thicken the trunk below. Just don't expect immediate responses, especially from juniper. A large pot, colander or garden bed will also speed up trunk thickness. Note that Dirk is anticipating 5-10 years above.
As for cutting the trunk..... By cutting the trunk now you will remove potential growth, sacrifice branches and thickening potential. In other words, chopping now will slow development. Dirk's idea of using the existing trunk as part of sacrifice growth is one option. Eventually you would remove much of the trunk. Just be careful that free growing top does not weaken the lower branches that you will eventually rely on to shape your tree.
If you want to grow a smaller bonsai then chopping the trunk may help the trunk appear to be thicker. A shorter tree with trunk the same thickness APPEARS to be a tree with a thicker trunk and bonsai is all about appearance.

If you are new to bonsai and just want to have a juniper bonsai then you might be happy with the bonsai you have. Enjoy learning with it but I would also encourage you to get a couple more trees and use some of these techniques to slowly develop some higher quality trees while basking in the knowledge that you really are a bonsai grower and have something to show friends.

 

[Vance Wood]

By now you should be starting to see the advantage of starting with decent material and not sticks in pots. It is best to cut down larger material into smaller bonsai than it is to start with small uninteresting material and try to grow it into a bonsai. It is easier to sculpt a large stone down into a figure than it is to try to hope a rock in hand can be grown into the statue of David. Chose material correctly within your range of ability. You should not be taking your time to learn techniques that are only useful in providing you with material you can start with. It takes too much time, effort and skill that can be used elsewhere.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

By now you should be starting to see the advantage of starting with decent material and not sticks in pots. It is best to cut down larger material into smaller bonsai than it is to start with small uninteresting material and try to grow it into a bonsai. It is easier to sculpt a large stone down into a figure than it is to try to hope a rock in hand can be grown into the statue of David. Chose material correctly within your range of ability. You should not be taking your time to learn techniques that are only useful in providing you with material you can start with. It takes too much time, effort and skill that can be used elsewhere.

Hi Vance,
I see it written time and again about this buying big and reducing etc. I can buy big trees from landscape nurseries but there are no bonsai nurseries to buy from at all. Leaving me with growing out everything. Any more comments/advice?
Charles

 

[rockm]

Hi Vance,
I see it written time and again about this buying big and reducing etc. I can buy big trees from landscape nurseries but there are no bonsai nurseries to buy from at all. Leaving me with growing out everything. Any more comments/advice?
Charles

Those "big" trees from regular are what most of us who have been doing this a while use. We don't necessarily by stuff from "bonsai nurseries" to start on. If you have a tree nursery nearby, you have a source of material. You just have to know what to look for. Basically, any tree up to a diameter of a foot at ground level can be converted into bonsai. You simply use the bottom two to three feet of that tree and remove the rest. You're shopping for that first three feet of tree, the rest is removed. Thinking in those terms can open up a world of additional possibilities...

 

[Shibui]

Yes, definitely. See attached for example.
Don't get too hung up on taper for junipers. They don't naturally develop big, buttressed bases like maples so a bonsai with such a trunk would look unnatural. Some taper is great, too much is not only unachievable but unnatural.

 

[Adair M]

Yes, definitely. See attached for example.
Don't get too hung up on taper for junipers. They don't naturally develop big, buttressed bases like maples so a bonsai with such a trunk would look unnatural. Some taper is great, too much is not only unachievable but unnatural.

Really?



Some wild Sierra Junipers:

 

[Shibui]

Nice little juniper. Better than most I agree but, huge taper like a maple or ficus?
You certainly have an advantage over me in seeing natural old junipers. and some of those are quite striking. Not sure that first one is actually attractive though the second view does seem to flow a bit better than the first. Can't see much of the trunk of the second one to assess the actual taper. Thick? yes but from what I can see, after it splits into separate trunks they have little taper.
I think the last tree actually confirms my point. It certainly does have a thick trunk but very little taper until it splits into branches near the top and as far as visible nebari?

 

[JerryMcconnel]

I like the photograph of the bonsai tree you have done. I will be making my first bonsai after the new years at a class at my local nursery, it will be a juniper. I was reading the comments and was confused at why you should cut so much off the top to make it shorter. But, I think I understand now after reading some of the comments. I wonder as well, if making the Bonsai tree shorter makes it easier to take care of.

 

[one_bonsai]

I like the photograph of the bonsai tree you have done. I will be making my first bonsai after the new years at a class at my local nursery, it will be a juniper. I was reading the comments and was confused at why you should cut so much off the top to make it shorter. But, I think I understand now after reading some of the comments. I wonder as well, if making the Bonsai tree shorter makes it easier to take care of.

I actually don't like the tree that I've done, but thank you anyway. With regards to making it shorter, the thickness of the trunk at the base dictates how tall the tree should be. As the trunk on my tree is not very thick, making it shorter makes it look a bit more like a tree. It also improves the trunk taper.

 

[JerryMcconnel]

I actually don't like the tree that I've done, but thank you anyway. With regards to making it shorter, the thickness of the trunk at the base dictates how tall the tree should be. As the trunk on my tree is not very thick, making it shorter makes it look a bit more like a tree. It also improves the trunk taper.

I liked it, but I am starting to understand that there is much more to learning how to do the bonsai, than I originally might of thought that there would be. I think I understand now as well the reason for making shorter, I thought it might have something to do with making raiser to care for. What you are saying I think, is that by making smaller it looks more in proportion to a small tree?

 

[one_bonsai]

What you are saying I think, is that by making smaller it looks more in proportion to a small tree?

Correct

 

[JerryMcconnel]

Correct

Ok, I think what comments I was reading now make sense. And understand why you should cut lower.

 

[Vance Wood]

Hi Vance,
I see it written time and again about this buying big and reducing etc. I can buy big trees from landscape nurseries but there are no bonsai nurseries to buy from at all. Leaving me with growing out everything. Any more comments/advice?
Charles

In my experience over time, bonsai nurseries are generally a waste of time and money. Mom and pop nurseries are the best resources out there short of Yamadori. Big box nurseries are alright if you are looking for stuff to develop over time, but seldom good stuff with large trunks will be found in one.

 

[Potawatomi13]

let things grow for 2 years in the ground

At least.

[QUOTE="Vance Wood, post: 613503, member: Big box nurseries are alright if you are looking for stuff to develop over time, but seldom good stuff with large trunks will be found in one.[/QUOTE]

Or "mame" tree stock.