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sorce

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@sorce ...one has to understand critique is just another ones opinion. As we all have our favorite artists. Critique is good to chew over. If it lines up with what one sees as their vision. Then great! If not...no biggie...but it offered possiblities one may not have considered...and improved their tree to their liking as well.
I am thinking in the context of ...

Why is it so hard for this site to be productive?

The reason for the reason for the reason for this thread if you will....

Technically, unsustainable branch structure isn't something that can be "critiqued". It is a requirement, so the tree to make it to a place of being critiqued.

Then we have an uncritiqueable juniper. The only thing we can critique is the work itself, not the tree. I think we overlook these truths, which is why we remain unproductive as a whole.

Sorce
 

amcoffeegirl

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I say that because I feel I would only be critiquing Jerry for approving this undetailed "hedging",

That said....

I personally can't manage branches as that on the squat ficus. Seems there is no "appropriate structure" but this is hard to see. Basically, I can't "critique" the tree itself now, but the future tree, if this continues, seems like it will suffer

Sorce
You are correct that it may suffer if this continues.
For the record Jerry did not approve the hedging.
Only the work on the canopy.
I am certain that he would never give that direction.
The canopy here is quite dense and the indoor lighting would not reach the interior of the tree without defoliation of some kind.
There are some who defoliate the entire tree when they move it indoors for the winter.
Sometimes the tree will defoliate itself tbh.

I could have done it better for sure.
The tree however will grow new leaves where these were sheared.
 

sorce

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You are correct that it may suffer if this continues.
For the record Jerry did not approve the hedging.
Only the work on the canopy.
I am certain that he would never give that direction.
The canopy here is quite dense and the indoor lighting would not reach the interior of the tree without defoliation of some kind.
There are some who defoliate the entire tree when they move it indoors for the winter.
Sometimes the tree will defoliate itself tbh.

I could have done it better for sure.
The tree however will grow new leaves where these were sheared.
I understand the sheared leaves....no worries there.

It's the remaining structure that I uncomfortable with. I feel like driving in and removing chunks to open it up.

Maybe @Brian Van Fleet can share a tree so he can talk about his bathtub tree. Since I don't have these to understand their branching structure, or how to manage it.

All I know is that congestion bugs me.

Sorce
 

Cadillactaste

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I understand the sheared leaves....no worries there.

It's the remaining structure that I uncomfortable with. I feel like driving in and removing chunks to open it up.

Maybe @Brian Van Fleet can share a tree so he can talk about his bathtub tree. Since I don't have these to understand their branching structure, or how to manage it.

All I know is that congestion bugs me.

Sorce
Take a look at Suthin's ficus he has for sale at times. The dense canopy I actually admire on Denise's tree.
 

sorce

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greed...hard to critique someone who I respect as in Jerry. He's like to Ficus as Vance is to Mugo.
What I know to be true is Vance just outed himself as a poor wirer. He's at least 60 maybe 55 lol!

I've devoured Jerry's site and info, but it's been awhile.

I do think we're confusing "hedging" as I'm using it.
Or maybe we think I'm critiquing the teacher. I'm not. Just thinking about it. Sorry, my mind is everywhere.

Sorce
 

sorce

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What color do you envision to highlight the bright pink?
If I'm being honest.....

That will never outweigh the 3 similar trunks so it doesn't matter.

I do love it's not an actual pot! It's no different than anything "faked" in Japan.
Well done.

Sorce
 

Cadillactaste

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What I know to be true is Vance just outed himself as a poor wirer. He's at least 60 maybe 55 lol!

I've devoured Jerry's site and info, but it's been awhile.

I do think we're confusing "hedging" as I'm using it.
Or maybe we think I'm critiquing the teacher. I'm not. Just thinking about it. Sorry, my mind is everywhere.

Sorce
Hedging was brought to our attention that was not directions of Jerry. This was posted before that came to light.

As for Vance...he's still Mugo King!

I must say...when I thought it came from Jerry...the comment Al made...made me snicker. Because of my high regard of Jerry/Ficus.
 

Cadillactaste

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@Hartinez ...
Gorgeous in bloom with a nice canopy.
Screenshot_20191007-111519~2.png

I have come to not see all faults as a deal breaker for me. Where Sorce has his hangups. I don't... Maybe either work with the roots...or bury some and leave less exposed.

My biggest cringe...the wiring to the pot.
 

River's Edge

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One of my favorite trees is this Mountain Hemlock. It is a collected tree that i have been training for the past six years. I will post the beginning and the current stage. The beginning stage is immediately after purchase and still in the nursery pot used after collection.
The challenge with this tree is the distance between the two trunks initially, successive wiring, bending and application of Bonsai Jacks has improved the distance and movement. The tree has been styled on four occasions, and wired consistently over the past six years with wire removed and reapplied as needed. Repotting was accomplished over five stages from collection to present pot. The tree requires further pad refinement and the process involves regular pruning of new shoots and further detailed wiring in areas that are extending!
 

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Hartinez

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@Hartinez ...
Gorgeous in bloom with a nice canopy.
View attachment 265741

I have come to not see all faults as a deal breaker for me. Where Sorce has his hangups. I don't... Maybe either work with the roots...or bury some and leave less exposed.

My biggest cringe...the wiring to the pot.
They are a bit messy, but the guy wires don’t bother me as much after seeing Walter palls guy wiring technique! Have you seen them on his blog?!?! And I started slow with each of these, bending the wire a bit more after several days. Fortunately I feel like my wiring in general has slowly improved. Though this bougie has never had anything wired, only clip and grow. That is until my goofy guy wires. 😂
 

Cadillactaste

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One of my favorite trees is this Mountain Hemlock. It is a collected tree that i have been training for the past six years. I will post the beginning and the current stage. The beginning stage is immediately after purchase and still in the nursery pot used after collection.
The challenge with this tree is the distance between the two trunks initially, successive wiring, bending and application of Bonsai Jacks has improved the distance and movement. The tree has been styled on four occasions, and wired consistently over the past six years with wire removed and reapplied as needed. Repotting was accomplished over five stages from collection to present pot. The tree requires further pad refinement and the process involves regular pruning of new shoots and further detailed wiring in areas that are extending!
I absolutely love you kept two separate apex! 😍 So many incorporate two trunks into one main canopy and apex. I think in doing so...you took this tree where it deserved to stand...with ones admiration of it.
 

Hartinez

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One of my favorite trees is this Mountain Hemlock. It is a collected tree that i have been training for the past six years. I will post the beginning and the current stage. The beginning stage is immediately after purchase and still in the nursery pot used after collection.
The challenge with this tree is the distance between the two trunks initially, successive wiring, bending and application of Bonsai Jacks has improved the distance and movement. The tree has been styled on four occasions, and wired consistently over the past six years with wire removed and reapplied as needed. Repotting was accomplished over five stages from collection to present pot. The tree requires further pad refinement and the process involves regular pruning of new shoots and further detailed wiring in areas that are extending!
Just gorgeous Frank, this like your sub alpine fir of similar shape are spectacular. How will you address the foliage over the long term? You have the tree looking so insanely healthy, that I wonder how it’ll look over several more growing seasons. If the goal, maybe not your goal, is to give the illusion of an ancient tree how will you address this? Jinning specific branches in several years? Thinning out extensively evey few years or so? Regardless, it’s a gorgeous tree and your an incredible talent at making mountain trees look very healthy.
 

Cadillactaste

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They are a bit messy, but the guy wires don’t bother me as much after seeing Walter palls guy wiring technique! Have you seen them on his blog?!?! And I started slow with each of these, bending the wire a bit more after several days. Fortunately I feel like my wiring in general has slowly improved. Though this bougie has never had anything wired, only clip and grow. That is until my goofy guy wires. 😂
Did you edit the wires in the photo? I didn't notice them attached to the tree. (I am on my phone though.) I assumed it's now you wired to the pot. Guy wires are looked at differently by me... Your good then. Sorry for the confusion.
 

amcoffeegirl

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I understand the sheared leaves....no worries there.

It's the remaining structure that I uncomfortable with. I feel like driving in and removing chunks to open it up.

Maybe @Brian Van Fleet can share a tree so he can talk about his bathtub tree. Since I don't have these to understand their branching structure, or how to manage it.

All I know is that congestion bugs me.

Sorce
Got it- thank you!
 

Hartinez

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Did you edit the wires in the photo? I didn't notice them attached to the tree. (I am on my phone though.) I assumed it's now you wired to the pot. Guy wires are looked at differently by me... Your good then. Sorry for the confusion.
It is attached to the tree, and no apology necessary! It’s a fair criticism regardless of wether it’s attached to the tree as my wiring can be a bit messy at times.

Here’s a better shot. You can see how I twisted the wire out first, then starting bending the wires at spots in order to bring the branch down a bit further.
265747
 

River's Edge

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I absolutely love you kept two separate apex! 😍 So many incorporate two trunks into one main canopy and apex. I think in doing so...you took this tree where it deserved to stand...with ones admiration of it.
Thank you, the initial styling was with the assistance of Michael Hagedorn, Bobby Curtright, and Matt Reel. It was a group wiring and styling effort in the fall of 2013. Matt and Bobby helped rewire it in 2017.
Since then I have reworked it several times as it matures. Most recently the tailgate bonsai group i work within has provided assistance with wiring and styling. We have all studied with Michael Hagedorn and two of us have graduated from Boon's program as well. Two other members have completed Ryan's intensives. So there is no shortage of advice. :eek:

A tree like this can take me a week to wire on my own. I am slow and find that i get more careless if i try to wire for too long at a time. But then it takes from size 4 to 20 to complete a collected Hemlock. Now that the primary branches are set, i work primarily with # 10 to #20 when rewiring. After the most recent session, it was decided that the trunks could move a bit closer and the movement between the two would improve, as well as create a more unified flow. This was after thinning and separating pads, allowing for negative space and future pad growth. Needs to fill in again.IMG_0184.JPG
 

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Just gorgeous Frank, this like your sub alpine fir of similar shape are spectacular. How will you address the foliage over the long term? You have the tree looking so insanely healthy, that I wonder how it’ll look over several more growing seasons. If the goal, maybe not your goal, is to give the illusion of an ancient tree how will you address this? Jinning specific branches in several years? Thinning out extensively evey few years or so? Regardless, it’s a gorgeous tree and your an incredible talent at making mountain trees look very healthy.
Thanks, The age is creeping in with the maturation of the bark and the aging of the scars from branch removal. Up close instead of jins the areas of branch removal have been treated to mimic natural decay at the branch site. I have splintered and removed recessed areas, treated with India ink.
The hollows are natural to softer wood decay process. This process takes quite a bit of picky work to mimic.
Another feature is the Shari on the main trunk created when a large elbow was removed over time.
The next stage of development will introduce more negative space and finer definition within the branch and pad structure!
I prefer a more refined look with detailed pad and branch development.
 

Hartinez

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Thanks, The age is creeping in with the maturation of the bark and the aging of the scars from branch removal. Up close instead of jins the areas of branch removal have been treated to mimic natural decay at the branch site. I have splintered and removed recessed areas, treated with India ink. The branch site often rots away leaving a splintered hollow in nature. The next stage of development will introduce more negative space and finer definition within the branch and pad structure!
I prefer a more refined look with detailed pad and branch development.
Have you displayed at the national show? I feel like I’ve seen several trees of yours that could be right now, or at least in the near future, perfect representatives of the PNW.
 

River's Edge

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Have you displayed at the national show? I feel like I’ve seen several trees of yours that could be right now, or at least in the near future, perfect representatives of the PNW.
That activity is on my bucket list, working to get to that point some day if the good lord is willing and the creeks don't rise! There are some amazing artists and trees in the PNW.
 
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