D'Angelo
Mame
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I hope these show more detail.
I hope these show more detail.
Shimpaku juniper question.
- Thread starter D'Angelo
- Start date
D'Angelo
Mame
Another things that's got me is one of the tags, if you look at the very first inscription, it looks like it says ..DUg 1754 or 1954...could that be possible?
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
Wonderful tree specially due to its apparent history. Enjoy! 
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Yes it could be possible. I am curious though. How did you get your hands on what many would consider a very old and valuable bonsai? My point: I am very surprised that the Country of Japan would have let this tree out of the country. It is my understanding that trees like this one are considered national treasures and though they may belong to an individual or a family the Nation of Japan considers that it belongs to Japan as well and may not be sold. I may be totally wrong but the story is compelling.
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Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Congrats on the acquisition. It looks like an old and storied juniper.
FWIW, shimpaku was first "discovered" in 1892 in Hokkiado, with the collecting heydays between late 1890s and 1950s.
If you're interested in a great article on the history of the pioneers of shimpaku collecting (published in '03 by the WBFF...including the collection of that amazing Itoigawa, 'Hiryu' from the most recent Bonsai Focus), I have pasted it into my site here.
FWIW, shimpaku was first "discovered" in 1892 in Hokkiado, with the collecting heydays between late 1890s and 1950s.
If you're interested in a great article on the history of the pioneers of shimpaku collecting (published in '03 by the WBFF...including the collection of that amazing Itoigawa, 'Hiryu' from the most recent Bonsai Focus), I have pasted it into my site here.
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D'Angelo
Mame
Not sure of the whole story yet, all I know is that this tree was acquired from a very old Japanese man who died..(he was about 100 years of age.) possibly residing in California and originally from japan. was also told the tree was collected from the mountains.Will try to get more History if I can.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
The tree is obviously Yamadori and the story may be true. This man may have brought the tree over with him from Japan many years ago before the ideas about who owns what started to surface and grow teeth.
D'Angelo
Mame
John Ruger
Shohin
- Messages
- 470
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You have one hell of a nice tree with possibly an outstanding history to go along with it; find out as much as you can about it. You may even pose the provenance questions to William Valavanis and Robert Baran. They may be able to point you in the right direction or have some insight and thoughts on this one.
Either way, good luck with this one, keep us updated on what you may find out and on the progress of the tree.
Either way, good luck with this one, keep us updated on what you may find out and on the progress of the tree.
D'Angelo
Mame
Thank you!!...Who are these Gentlemen?...William Valavanis and Robert Baran
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Just a wild guess here, and by looking at the stock I am going to guess shimpaku grafted onto Prostrata, the tree may have been owned by a Japanese guy who was a hundred since that how old Hatanaka would be, and the tree is probably from Southern California and never seen Japan.
Hatanaka and John Naka were friends and this piece looks like a Umenori Hatanaka.
Some other works of Hatanaka and his love of Prostrata junipers. Back in the fifties and early sixries these prostrata were plentiful and many were plucked from yards as most of the Southern Ca group were yard keepers.
Hatanaka and John Naka were friends and this piece looks like a Umenori Hatanaka.
Some other works of Hatanaka and his love of Prostrata junipers. Back in the fifties and early sixries these prostrata were plentiful and many were plucked from yards as most of the Southern Ca group were yard keepers.
Attachments
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
John Ruger
Shohin
- Messages
- 470
- Reaction score
- 2
Robert Baran can be contacted at Phoenix Bonsai. He's one of the finest historians of bonsai; take a look at the Phoenix Bonsai site and you'll see what I mean; he has more archived materials than I've ever seen. He may also be a member here, I'm not sure, but he's certainly a member of the Internet Bonsai Club.
Bill Valavanis has been around for decades and has been one of the best promoters of the art. You can find him at the International Bonsai Arboretum site. Also, I think he's a member here and I know he's one at the IBC too.
I'm just thinking that these guys may have a really good idea of how to approach the questions you have regarding ownership, etc. They may not have direct knowledge, but I think their interest will be piqued. Throw them an email and some pics. It can't hurt.
John Romano
Mame
- Messages
- 138
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I would second Al's evaluation. We have had many of this individuals trees come through New England Bonsai (some we still have and still have tags like this - most of his trees were tagged). I would make an educated assessment that this is a shimpaku grafted onto prostrata as well. We have had many like that and it is a common practice in CA. The Prostrata (or San Jose) 'trunk up' quicker but they don't have the nice foliage of the slower growing shimpaku. Thus the graft. Also seeing the history of this persons trees coming through here over the years, I would also suspect '1954' not '1754'. Many of his tags have trees starting or being acquired in the 50-s - 70's. One of my favorites that was not for sale at the nursery was a Parthenocissus Tricuspidata that said 'cutting 1972' It was a beautiful tree that was sadly stolen when the nursery was robbed a couple of years ago.
Naka may have worked on it or may have done the grafting (or the owner may have acquired it from him - that you may probably never know). Nice to have this history though. Enjoy it.
john
Naka may have worked on it or may have done the grafting (or the owner may have acquired it from him - that you may probably never know). Nice to have this history though. Enjoy it.
john
D'Angelo
Mame
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I could one tell if this is a shimpaku grafted onto a prostrata stcock?..just curious!!
Well I suspect it was probably done in the late 50's or early sixties by probably Mas Ishii. He was grafting material like crazy back then as well as the rest of his life. With grafts that old they would never be known now. I suspect Prostrata simply from the look of the bark and the trunk. It seems way to rough for Shimpaku.
The pic with the can looks like prostrata to me. There are some other give aways also. There are parts of the branches that have grown very straight, a true yamadori growing in the mountains would carry its visual all the way thru.
D'Angelo
Mame
A special thanks to everyone for their great input!!..I think I have enough info on this tree....its a keeper!!
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
A special thanks to everyone for their great input!!..I think I have enough info on this tree....its a keeper!!
An understatement.....
bonsaibp
Omono
I think Al is most likley correct here. The deadwood and bark look like Prostrata and the work is remeniscent of Hatanakas work. No matter though an awesome tree.
bonsaibp
Omono
Again I agree but if so the grafts were probably done by Hatanaka.
