Should I pull down facing needles?

[Mike Corazzi]

Gonna ask FIRST this time because I always seem to do it at wrong time or something.

I...think... the tree is pretty strong this year.
I'm not even REALLY sure WHY it's advisable to pull down facing needles.

But what think?

While looking at it, I'd also like opinions on whether to cut back some what I think are "hardened" candles.

View attachment 106261

 

[sorce]

What is it?

On MUGO you pull the downward growing needles to stop budding.

And I believe on JBP you pluck needles to promote bud growth.

Cleaning up finished foliage pads would be for anything...

But I'm not sure you're there yet.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Sorce,

JBP needle pulling is used to "balance the tree. Pulling needles weakens the tree. In particular, it weakens the stem they're attached to. To create "balance" we goal we want is for the tree to appear to be healthy everywhere, and to show equal vigor all over the tree.

JBP tend wo try to grow more at the top than the bottom of the tree, so they tend to have more needles there. By pulling some of those needles, it weakens the top. Making it more likel the rest of the tree.

There's other ways needle pulling can be used, but that's the primary way.

 

[sorce]

balance

I shouldn't have said "promote"....
I understand what you are saying..

But...isn't it true that buds will form at plucked areas in JBP...whereas in Mugo..
(yes...a rhetorical Vance Question)
You lesson chances of budding...

I'm sasmt really talking of "bottom" needles per say....
Just pointing out....or backing up the question....

What is it?

Side note....

I'm not a fan of pulling needles (as pertains to "buds or not") until you know you won't bend the branch upside down or sideways.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Sorce, pulling needles usually destroys the "needle bud" that lies in between each pair of JBP needles.

So, to answer your question, about pulling needles to form buds... The short answer is no. Pull needles, and you destroy that needle bud.

Now... There is a technique that sometimes is used to induce needle budding to occur. And that is thinning needles, leaving a few pairs intact spaced out on the twig. Usually the ones on the bottom and top are removed, and leaving a few on the sides. This SOMETIMES works. Needle buds are very unreliable and weak.

I prefer not to use needle buds, or I should say, when I'm styling and developing my tree, I assume I won't get any needle buds. I work with the spring candles and the adventitious candles produced by decandling. These are very reliable and predictable. IF I get any needle buds, that's a lucky bonus. But if I were to depend upon getting any, I'd likely never get any.

I have no clue about Mugos.

 

[M. Frary]

Cut the downward facing and upward needles on the branches to let light into the interior. Leaving the stub of the needle leaves the dormant buds at the base intact.
Letting light into the interior let's the weaker limbs get light and sun shining on this tree can let the buds lying dormant along the trunk and branches get sunlight. And start to grow.

Doesn't anybody listen to @Vance Wood? He has posted all of this before numerous times.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Scots pine

 

[Mike Corazzi]

If I don't cut needles, should I shorten those candles?

 

[M. Frary]

Scots pine

Yep.

If I don't cut needles, should I shorten those candles?

It is the one in the cacadama right? I would let it alone this year if it is.

 

[Vance Wood]

You notice by looking at this photo, seeing the trunk or anything in close to it is impossible. Look at the mess of needles. Removing the lower needles and in many cases the upper needles will allow light to the interior of the tree and stimulate back budding. I prefer that the needles be cut not pulled, pulling will tear out a lot of needles you may want latter down the road. Scots and Mugos are cousins and respond similarly. If they are treated right they can back bud all over the place and will of necessity be always in need of a
hair cut.

 

[Adair M]

Pulling needles vs cutting needles off very short:

Some species of pine should not be pulled. Pulling can cause damage if not done correctly. It is safer to cut them off, very short, if you have any doubts.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Well, I am gratified for the "mess of needles" as this was the pore devil just last year when I rescued it from the dreaded KAKA-damn-A!

So now that I got some needlies, I wanna take care of em.

A ...big... bunch of em were also half brown and I thought the whole thing was a goner.

 

[Vance Wood]

Well, I am gratified for the "mess of needles" as this was the pore devil just last year when I rescued it from the dreaded KAKA-damn-A!

So now that I got some needlies, I wanna take care of em.

A ...big... bunch of em were also half brown and I thought the whole thing was a goner.

View attachment 106325

there are so many things you need to learn about Pines, how they grow and what things can happen to them. You are aware that the needles only last about three years anyway are you not? If you are determined to grow Pine tree bonsai you have to understand these things and that often it is necessary to remove needles. If you don't have the heart or nerve to do that plant the tree in the ground and let it grow as it wants.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Yep, aware and determined to get this guy through.
I can always hold a gun on it. I'LL SHOW IT HEART AND NERVE, BY DANG!
Only other pine I have is a JBP and it's too young and got too good a start to find a way to screw it up so far.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I...DID.... get the scots to put on HEALTHY needles and backbud a bit.

 

[M. Frary]

It's really come a long way in a year Mike. And it's a pretty nice tree to boot.
I think you've done well for this tree. Keep it up.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Well, I am gratified for the "mess of needles" as this was the pore devil just last year when I rescued it from the dreaded KAKA-damn-A!

So now that I got some needlies, I wanna take care of em.

A ...big... bunch of em were also half brown and I thought the whole thing was a goner.

View attachment 106325

Very interesting roots add some unique character to your tree. Please keep alive.

 

[Adair M]

Mike, have you placed a rock in the pot?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Mike, have you placed a rock in the pot?

Yes. Is that a pine sin?

 

[Adair M]

Yes. Is that a pine sin?

No... But to what purpose? Are you trying to make it a root over rock? Is it just decorative? If so, it may be more of a distraction. The most important element of a bonsai is the lower trunk. If the stone makes the trunk hard to see, it's a distraction.

Your trunk and rock appear to be about the same color, so at least in the photo, it's hard to see the trunk.