So many fertilizer questions, so little time.

[markyscott]

I withhold fertilizer on my JWP in spring, and begin fertilizing them once the needles have hardened off in summer.

Thanks Adair - I should have been more specific in pointing out that I was talking about black pine. No white pine for Scott in houston.

 

[fredman]

I use Microlife.

Man that is good stuff. That list of ingredients is impressive. We aren't that lucky here to have such a big selection of organic pellets.
This is about the only ones available. It stinks for a while and then turns into furr balls. The only other product is dried sheep manure in pellet form

My only option really is to make my own before next season starts. Any recipes out there...?

 

[markyscott]

Brian Van Fleet has a nice simple recipe.

https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/feeding-the-trees-let-them-eat-cake-and-fish/

Here's the recipe more or less right out of Bonsai Today #47


That's what I used for years. I use the gelatin as a thickening agent rather than flour. I like it better and you don't have to cut the fertilizer strength. Dryroots is still around, but it's hard to find. It's the humate source - I've pretty much switched to Microlife Humates Plus.

 

[fredman]

Great Thanks for that. Yes I do have BvF's recipe but no Plantone. I still have all winter to fool around... Come spring I will be ready !!!

 

[GrimLore]

Thanks Grimmy - I'll have to run home and look at my watering can now - I've not noticed any deterioration of the finish but I can't say I've looked very carefully either.

I don't "think" the chemical reaction to the galvanized hurts the plants, I just noticed it after the first time I left a couple of quarts in the Haws overnight and use the plastic Haws for fertilizer now - probably overkill but oh well
I have that Dram only it has the soft touch controller - excellent quality products and I own a few others. I found it far more cost effective to just buy their products when available rather then replace all of the others every year or two.
When I resume Bonsai and get out of the testing the land mode I will be going to your patented pvc pipe system on my granular - that is a great idea and if you have the rachet cutter for it even better! Thanks for sharing that

Grimmy

 

[markyscott]

Here's another fertilizer trick. Do you know those Miracle Gro hose end sprayers? Well, they make one that attaches to the faucet as well.



If you're building your own watering system, it's quite tempting to consider one of these as an inexpensive fertilizer injector. After all, they're only about $16 to get you started. The real cost comes with the bottles. Those things cost $3-$5 per bottle and can get quite pricey if you fertilize your whole garden that way. And some people don't like Miracle Gro. Of course some do, and others don't care. Doesn't matter - the point is, with a bit of math you can refill those bottles with whatever your favorite fertilizer is at a fraction of the cost of buying a replacement bottle. Then you have the best of both worlds - low cost and convenient.

I'll outline how to do it yourself on the following posts.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

First thing we have to do is ignore the warning on the label of the bottle that clearly states you should not do what I'm about to tell you to do.



The trick is to work out the dilution rate - then we can math it out.

The first thing we need to do is is establish how much water passes through the injector to empty a bottle. MiracleGro has been kind enough to provide a handy table:

http://www.miraclegro.com/smg/goART...tarter-kit/34400014/7500003/27000004/12900004

But ignore that, it's useless. If you do enough reading, way, way down in the FAQ, they give you the answer, sort of. The injector has a mix ratio of 325:1. In other words, 1 gallon of concentrated fertilizer would make 325 gallons of fertilized water.

Now the math.

One gallon is 128oz

128/16 = 8.

So it takes 8, 16 oz bottles to equal one gallon. Now we divide the 325 by 8

325/8 = 40.625

We can round that down to 40. So we now know that the injector, with a refill bottle makes 40 gallons of fertilized water, give or take. But close enough for government work.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

So remember the Hosta Gro?



Here are the dilution rates:


In other words 1 oz per gallon will give you a NPK 0f 6-12-6 and 1/2 oz per gallon will give you an NPK of 3-6-3.

So if we're making 40 gallons of fertilized water and we fill up the 16 oz bottle we get:

16oz/40gallons or 0.4 oz/gallon. That's a fertilizer with a strength of about 2.5-5-2.5, a good dilute weekly feed.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Here's another example. Let's say you like Miracle Gro "All Purpose".


It's labeled as 12-4-8 which is a 3-1-2 ratio. If the fertilizer is a 3-1-2 then it only differs from a 6-2-4, 9-3-6, 12-4-8, 15-5-10, etc by the dilution.

So, just like we did in the Hosta Gro example, read the instructions on the fertilizer bag for the rate per gallon and multiply by 40. According to the box:

1 TBSP = 24-8-16 = 40 TBSP per refill bottle. That's 20 oz - the bottle is only 16 oz, so we can't achieve that concentration.

1/2 TBSP = 12-4-8 = 20 TBSP per refill bottle. That's 10 oz - and fill up the rest of the bottle with water.

1/4 TBSP = 6-2-4 = 10 TBSP per refill bottle. That's 5 oz with the rest of the bottle filled with water. Totally doable and a reasonable concentration for a weekly feed.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Now we have something we can work with. You'll need some el cheap of measuring spoons, a funnel, a coffee filter and a jar/bottle to mix everything in. Also, your empty refill bottle. Measure out your fertilizer and put it in your mixing jar. Say you want the 6-2-4 concentration - put 10 TBSP or 5 oz of fertilizer in the jar. Then add 11 oz of water and shake it up until the fertilizer is dissolved. Don't worry if you see some floaties - there is some inert stuff that won't dissolve. Set it aside.

The refill bottle has a cap with a valve that has to be removed.


Using a knife, pry it off.


Scott

 

[markyscott]

Then place your coffee filter in your funnel and place that into the refill bottle. Pour your homemade fertilizer in and let the filter do it's job. You want to filter the mix due to the sediment - it will clog the filter if you don't do it. Once your refill bottle is full, put the valve cap back on. You'll hear it snap when it seats properly. Then use it normally - screw it back on to the universal applicator or hose end sprayer and use normally. You're good to go!



Scott

 

[Adair M]

Scott, the MiracleGrow people are going to hunt you down!

 

[markyscott]

Scott, the MiracleGrow people are going to hunt you down!

It's true - imagine how much money they'll lose when literally DOZENS of bonsai people start refilling their own bottles!

Scott

 

[Adair M]

It's true - imagine how much money they'll lose when literally DOZENS of bonsai people start refilling their own bottles!

Scott

I know!! Boggles the mind doesn't it?

If I were you, I'd be on the lookout for black cars driving by your house VERY slowly. And, I've heard that they're using drones now to catch perps "in the act". Oh, those guys wearing brown pretending to be UPS drivers? Informants. They get paid a bounty on any refill cheater they find. Don't believe me? You're in Texas. The Branch Davidians were the first "refillers". It's true! You don't want to end up like them!

Great info as always, Scott!

Speaking of boggled minds... My daughter took an Epic Geology class with The University of Grorgia this summer. About 25 students and teachers went on a road trip from the marches of Georgia across the country to Arizona, California, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming... All over. Studying rocks, geological formations, rivers, deserts, volcanos, caves, you name it. And she brought back bags of rocks. One rock she said was 2.5 billion years old. And then, she had a piece of pumice from Mt. Saint Helen's. And that rock was only 30 years old. Kinda makes ya think, huh?

 

[jcrossett]

Wow @markyscott that's amazing stuff .

Is the PVC just a cut down 1.5 tube or do you put a cap or anything on it.

I like the cake recipes. I think I'm going to run cakes and my weekly deal.

Is there a fert you can use every day or more then once a week ?

I use miracle grow and at peak season ill do it every Saturday and some Wednesdays also randomly.

 

[markyscott]

I know!! Boggles the mind doesn't it?

If I were you, I'd be on the lookout for black cars driving by your house VERY slowly. And, I've heard that they're using drones now to catch perps "in the act". Oh, those guys wearing brown pretending to be UPS drivers? Informants. They get paid a bounty on any refill cheater they find. Don't believe me? You're in Texas. The Branch Davidians were the first "refillers". It's true! You don't want to end up like them!

Great info as always, Scott!

Speaking of boggled minds... My daughter took an Epic Geology class with The University of Grorgia this summer. About 25 students and teachers went on a road trip from the marches of Georgia across the country to Arizona, California, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming... All over. Studying rocks, geological formations, rivers, deserts, volcanos, caves, you name it. And she brought back bags of rocks. One rock she said was 2.5 billion years old. And then, she had a piece of pumice from Mt. Saint Helen's. And that rock was only 30 years old. Kinda makes ya think, huh?

My wife got her geology degree at the University of Georgia! And I've been to Mt. St. Helens dozens of times - the first was the year they opened the mountain for backcountry permits after the eruption. Great place! And be ready for your daughter to bring home a lot of weird rocks - my shelves are full of them.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Wow @markyscott that's amazing stuff .

Is the PVC just a cut down 1.5 tube or do you put a cap or anything on it.

I like the cake recipes. I think I'm going to run cakes and my weekly deal.

Is there a fert you can use every day or more then once a week ?

I use miracle grow and at peak season ill do it every Saturday and some Wednesdays also randomly.

The pvc is just a 1" length of 1 1/2" pipe. Easy Peasy.

I use a liquid once a week plus the cakes which releases a bit at every watering. Dunno about daily feeding with a liquid fertilizer, but it's usefulness is probably related to the soil you have your trees growing in. My trees grow in an inorganic medium, so very low cation exchange capacity.

Scott

 

[jcrossett]

The pvc is just a 1" length of 1 1/2" pipe. Easy Peasy.

I use a liquid once a week plus the cakes which releases a bit at every watering. Dunno about daily feeding with a liquid fertilizer, but it's usefulness is probably related to the soil you have your trees growing in. My trees grow in an inorganic medium, so very low cation exchange capacity.

Scott

Sounds easy enough. My soil differs from where I got the tree and when I got it.

I have a jbp 3 redwoods and 3 bald cypress in potting soil.

Eww I know.

Then I have a few from Matthew ouwinga. He runs straight turface.

Then an everything else in a unknown mix.

I plant to do alot of repotting this coming spring.

I have 4 gallons of soil from Adams bonsai. He truely hooked me up.

That seams to be a smaller inorganic.

 

[markyscott]

When purchasing fertilizer, everyone knows to look at the N-P-K rating and most of us look at the price. But to see the real cost you must look at the dilution rate as well. For instance, compare these two products:



And both are about the same price. Medina Hostagro is a great product and can be had at the price of $20/gallon. Fox Farm Grow Big is also a great product, but costs quite a bit more - it's about $18/qt or $72/gallon. Most of us would reach for the Medina without hesitating. BUT WAIT!

Medina, as you recall, is applied at a rate of 1 oz/gallon of fertilized water. So one gallon of Hostagro makes 128 gallon of fertilized water - so the price for the fertilized water is $20/128 gallon or about $0.16/gallon. Grow Big, however, is applied at a rate of 2 tsp/gallon of fertilized water. So one gallon of Grow Big makes 384 gallons of fertilized water. So the price for the fertilized water is $72/384 gallons or about $0.19/gallon. So the Fox Farm product is still a bit more expensive, but the price is not actually all that different. So before you can figure out the cost, you have to do some math. But if you calculate the cost per gallon of fertilized water, you can compare everything on the same basis.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

If you want to use the Grow Big in the fertilizer bottles like we discussed above, here's the math:

2 teaspoons per gallon yields 6-6-4
1 teaspoon per gallon yields 3-3-2. 1x40 = 40 teaspoons per refill bottle or 7 oz per bottle.

In other words, pop the top, add 7 oz, top off with water and you're good to go.

Scott