New with many questions

[IdAu]

More responsibility than a pet? Well yeah, living things that you take under your care are responsibilities. Guess you don’t have kids. They’re worse than bonsai. Can’t leave them alone or they’ll burn the house down.

Seriously bonsai is easier when you’re settled a bit with a house of your own and older kids.

I’m pretty “settled down.” Two houses with plenty of yard and garden. Even kids can get into the truck easier than several potted trees.

It's not the constant care that worries me, it's being tied down to one spot where they are and apparently not being able to leave alone (or take them) for 2 or 3 days from the sound of it. My garden is all automatically water.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

More responsibility than a pet? Well yeah, living things that you take under your care are responsibilities. Guess you don’t have kids. They’re worse than bonsai. Can’t leave them alone or they’ll burn the house down.

Seriously bonsai is easier when you’re settled a bit with a house of your own and older kids.

Yeah, I've burned up a tree or two, but a tree has never burned me or my property.

@IdAu, yes, a day without water, in Idaho, in the summer, even shaded, can completely dry out a potted plant, especially in coarse inorganic substrate in a shallow pot. Your climate has low humidity, high evaporation, so, although a somewhat cooler environment, bonsai will be a challenge. Every climate has its own set of obstacles. You and I don't have to worry as much about disease, but thecdry air is our biggest hurdle. I don't want to discourage you; it's an amazing and rewarding art/science experience. But it's best to know what you're up against in the beginning of your journey.

This forum is rich in wisdom and teachings, with hundreds (thousands?) of years of experience. Lean on the advice of the veterans here who've already given you some great suggestions.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

My garden is all automatically water.

It sounds like you could set up your benches/shelves in one of the irrigation zones if you're going to be away for a few days, and set that zone to water accordingly.

 

[rockm]

I’m pretty “settled down.” Two houses with plenty of yard and garden. Even kids can get into the truck easier than several potted trees.

It's not the constant care that worries me, it's being tied down to one spot where they are and apparently not being able to leave alone (or take them) for 2 or 3 days from the sound of it. My garden is all automatically water.

I managed bonsai and young kids for long time. didn’t feel tied to one place. Just knew the trees were an extra responsibilty that couldn’t be ignored. They had to be taken into account and it was my fault if they died.

If you can be creative and knowledgeable about what is possible (automatic watering can work pretty well if you set it up right and you have the right equipment
FWIW patience is a pretty necessary ingredient for bonsai. Patience and perseverance over a long period of time. It’s what it is- which is one of the primary attractors for people.

 

[IdAu]

I managed bonsai and young kids for long time. didn’t feel tied to one place. Just knew the trees were an extra responsibilty that couldn’t be ignored. They had to be taken into account and it was my fault if they died.

If you can be creative and knowledgeable about what is possible (automatic watering can work pretty well if you set it up right and you have the right equipment
FWIW patience is a pretty necessary ingredient for bonsai. Patience and perseverance over a long period of time. It’s what it is- which is one of the primary attractors for people.

Hooray. Some hope.

This thread alone has given me a deep appreciation for old bonsai, especially multigenerational ones. It is absolutely incredible that people dedicated that kind of consistent care for so long.

 

[bnw]

Welcome to bonsai. I'm a fellow Idahoan (north Idaho so different climate, but not so different) and have been keeping a few Japanese maple bonsai for several years now. Here's my 2 cents:

• JM bonsai do fine in Idaho. My JMs in the ground do really well, no leaf scorch. In pots, my leaves start to get crispy in July/Aug. so I move them into semi shade/shade to avoid leaf damage (some late summer leaf damage is normal for JM). Other than July/Aug/Sept, I keep in full sun (although Boise is going to be hotter/drier than me).
• I don't let my roots go below 20 deg F in the winter. If sub 20 deg F is forecast, I move them into my garage where temperatures stay around freezing. 15 deg F is the JM root kill temp as per Bonsai Heresy. Watering is easy in the winter. I just check on them weekly, give them water/snow every 2-4 weeks to make sure they stay damp.
• I hand water my trees daily (growing season). During vacation I set them on the ground in a shady part of my yard and they get watered by my irrigation system daily. I also have a fellow plant person water them/check on them while I'm away, in case of irrigation system failure.
• If you are itching to prune your trees, you could give it a light pruning as the leaves are changing color (Oct/Nov). I wouldn't prune it now because you might stimulate new growth, which won't have time to mature before frosts start.
• If it were me, in March (as the buds are swelling) I'd give these a root pruning and move them either 1) into the ground (if you want the trunk bigger, also easier to care for in the ground) or 2) into a pot with bonsai substrate. Mine seem to be happy in a 1:1:1 mixture of pumice, high-fired calcined clay, and conifer bark.

Best of luck!

 

[Michael P]

This is heresy but. . .if you keep your trees in larger pots they will be somewhat easier to leave for short periods. They will not have the classic look and it will be more difficult to achieve the desired fine ramification. Plastic, mica, or glazed ceramic pots dry out more slowly than unglazed or terracotta pots.

 

[IdAu]

Welcome to bonsai. I'm a fellow Idahoan (north Idaho so different climate, but not so different) and have been keeping a few Japanese maple bonsai for several years now. Here's my 2 cents:

• JM bonsai do fine in Idaho. My JMs in the ground do really well, no leaf scorch. In pots, my leaves start to get crispy in July/Aug. so I move them into semi shade/shade to avoid leaf damage (some late summer leaf damage is normal for JM). Other than July/Aug/Sept, I keep in full sun (although Boise is going to be hotter/drier than me).
• I don't let my roots go below 20 deg F in the winter. If sub 20 deg F is forecast, I move them into my garage where temperatures stay around freezing. 15 deg F is the JM root kill temp as per Bonsai Heresy. Watering is easy in the winter. I just check on them weekly, give them water/snow every 2-4 weeks to make sure they stay damp.
• I hand water my trees daily (growing season). During vacation I set them on the ground in a shady part of my yard and they get watered by my irrigation system daily. I also have a fellow plant person water them/check on them while I'm away, in case of irrigation system failure.
• If you are itching to prune your trees, you could give it a light pruning as the leaves are changing color (Oct/Nov). I wouldn't prune it now because you might stimulate new growth, which won't have time to mature before frosts start.
• If it were me, in March (as the buds are swelling) I'd give these a root pruning and move them either 1) into the ground (if you want the trunk bigger, also easier to care for in the ground) or 2) into a pot with bonsai substrate. Mine seem to be happy in a 1:1:1 mixture of pumice, high-fired calcined clay, and conifer bark.

Best of luck!

Hey thanks for the reply and info!

I thought CDA would have much colder winter temps, but after looking it up it seems nearly identical, with us maybe even being a few degrees colder.

On your second point, what if they are in the ground and you can't move them in? If I throw this thing in the ground soon is stacking mulch around the base going to cut it for sub 20F weather? I was also planning on making a small lean-to out of plywood to keep the snow off of it. Maybe I'm better off putting it in a bigger pot and just moving it into the garage at night when it gets below freezing?

If I keep it potted and it freezes solid, do I just let it stay that way without watering if it doesn't thaw during the day?

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Hey thanks for the reply and info!

I thought CDA would have much colder winter temps, but after looking it up it seems nearly identical, with us maybe even being a few degrees colder.

On your second point, what if they are in the ground and you can't move them in? If I throw this thing in the ground soon is stacking mulch around the base going to cut it for sub 20F weather? I was also planning on making a small lean-to out of plywood to keep the snow off of it. Maybe I'm better off putting it in a bigger pot and just moving it into the garage at night when it gets below freezing?

If I keep it potted and it freezes solid, do I just let it stay that way without watering if it doesn't thaw during the day?

I don't want to speak too much about snow and cold weather, being from such a hot climate. But I think the snow will actually insulate the tree. A cold frame is definitely a good idea and it will protect your trees from those cold Idaho winds through the winter. If I'm way off, one of the veterans more familiar with cold protection will correct me.

 

[rockm]

The mistake people just beginning make with overwintering is trying to keep trees”warm.” Aside from being impractical it’s bad for the trees. The goal is to keep trees as cold as possible without damaging the roots. Frozen roosts aren’t an issue with most temperate zone species. Happens all the time in the wild

What you have to do is protect against extremes. Snow is about the best insulation you can hope for. It prevents deep cold from reaching the roots of trees underneath it as well as providing moisture.

Under the snow pack it can be 15-20 degrees warmer than air temp. Snow (or wood mulch but isnt as efficient) traps ambient heat from the ground and keeps temp at or just below freezing.

Combined with something like a cold frame dug three feet into the ground can provide some pretty decent protection although prolonged extreme cold can still be an issue.

I mulch my trees onto the ground under six or seven inches of hardwood mulch at the end ofNovember they’re in a garden bed. There are bald cypress and cedar elm in the photo below. I’m in zone 7 so not as cold as you but it can give some ideas of what is possible

 

[bnw]

Hey thanks for the reply and info!

I thought CDA would have much colder winter temps, but after looking it up it seems nearly identical, with us maybe even being a few degrees colder.

On your second point, what if they are in the ground and you can't move them in? If I throw this thing in the ground soon is stacking mulch around the base going to cut it for sub 20F weather? I was also planning on making a small lean-to out of plywood to keep the snow off of it. Maybe I'm better off putting it in a bigger pot and just moving it into the garage at night when it gets below freezing?

If I keep it potted and it freezes solid, do I just let it stay that way without watering if it doesn't thaw during the day?

Interesting, I would have thought CDA was colder than Boise (I'm not too far from CDA) but the lower elevation at CDA must equalize it in terms of cold temps.

I don't keep the few JM bonsai that I do have in the ground overwinter for that very reason - once frozen in the ground, you can't move them and have less control. Rodent damage is also a possibility. That being said, if you heel them into the ground, mulch, and then get a nice covering of snow of at least a few inches - your tree roots should be insolated enough and stay above that critical 15 deg F threshold, even if air temps drop to 0 deg F (I'm not sure about -15 deg F, but I think with all that protection, especially the snow, they'd be fine). I do use snow as a insolator for my other really hardy trees (larch/spruce/thuja), which stay outside most of the winter (except for severe cold snaps and without insolating snow cover, then I move them too).

What you really need to look out for is severe drops in temperature in the late fall (say lows have maybe been around freezing, and then they plummet down to 20 deg F over just a day or two) those are tree killers. It's best for trees to cool down gradually.

Regarding frozen soil and watering: Yep, when my JMs are living in that 20-32 deg F zone, I don't water. I'll stack snow on top of the soil, so that if it does start to thaw and we get some melting, they get some water.

In a nutshell, I try to keep my JMs between 20-40 deg F all winter (but I stay far away from that 20 deg F mark, so maybe more like 23-40 deg F). And I water them infrequently (every 2-4 weeks, often by just piling snow on top of the pot).

 

[yesimnathan]

So if I understand, once it starts getting spring growth I need to dig it up and bring it in if it's going to drop below freezing again. I appreciate you letting me know, because that is VERY common here. The first year I moved here I replanted my garden 3 times because of surprise spring frosts that killed my plants.

Ahh if you're planting it in the ground, that's a different story. I'm opting to grow a bigger one in a container so I can protect it from spring frost. I'd love to plant a Katsura in my yard, but I live in Central Ohio

 

[bnw]

Yep, that's another reason I don't plant my JM bonsai in the ground in the winter - I want to be able to do the spring shuffle so I can protect the new leaves from frost. I end up shuffling my JMs with new leaves in and out of my garage (often just overnight) at least 5 times each spring. And my cultivars (Mikawa Yatsubusa, Katsura, Yuri Hime) do leaf out earlier than my standard JM.

 

[rockm]

So if I understand, once it starts getting spring growth I need to dig it up and bring it in if it's going to drop below freezing again. I appreciate you letting me know, because that is VERY common here. The first year I moved here I replanted my garden 3 times because of surprise spring frosts that killed my plants.

If you have planted in the ground with no pot you don’t have to move them inside. Growth in the spring relies on ground temperatures for the most part. If the ground has warmed deep enough the tree begins pushing memes top growth. This is a fail safe evolved by plants to a lid the dangers of yo yo spring temps. It takes many warm days to warm ground soil deeply enough to spur growth.

BUT. Once new leaf buds open they are vulnerable to air temperatures. BUT to kill the tree the GROUND has to freeze deeply enough to freeze roots. Once new spring growth begins up top the roots lose most of their ability to withstand freezing. BUT it has to get extremely cold for a while to reach deep into the ground

When we overwinter bonsai we can take a gator this to a point. Since bonsai are in pots they can be more exposed to cold since their roots can’t get deep enough to protect them from cold. Thats why a cold pit cold frame can work well.

BUT yes if a bonsai is in its pot and it’s begun growing it should be moved inside until the freeze danger passes. This is a common thing for those who live with cold winters and bonsai. I regularly move trees inside in March through April when we get cold snaps. That means lugging 100 lbs trees into my basement. Garages are great if you have one and invest in a Gorilla cart. I move them back out when it warms up in a few days.

Yes it’s a hassle and yes it’s necessary sometimes. I’ve never dug up a tree without a lot to move it inside though.

 

[IdAu]

Staying in the pot it is. Maybe having to shuffle it around will teach me some bonsai patience haha.

 

[yesimnathan]

Staying in the pot it is. Maybe having to shuffle it around will teach me some bonsai patience haha.

I'm still learning this too

 

[IdAu]

Off to a good start… what could be causing this and how can I fix it? It’s been outside in partial sunlight with cloud cover since I got it. I watered it once when it felt like it was drying out.

 

[bnw]

Off to a good start… what could be causing this and how can I fix it? It’s been outside in partial sunlight with cloud cover since I got it. I watered it once when it felt like it was drying out.

If you recently acquired them, it might just be damage caused by moving into a different light regime - maybe they are getting more light at your place.

Unless every single leaf looks like this (and it looks like many look unblemished in the pics), I wouldn't be concerned about the heatlh of the tree(s). And even if many leaves look like this, I wouldn't be concerned. By late August, my maple leaves from the first spring flush of growth are looking tired, with plenty of leaves that have damage like this.

I suspect that the reason we get damage like this is low humidity. To my understanding, Japan where these trees are native to gets really hot in the summer, but is also very humid. Not hot+dry like Idaho. But I'm just speculating.