Soil help please

[Martinm505]

I am new to planting trees from seed to try to grow bonsais. I have bonsai soil by The Bonsai Supply, which is a pumice, calcined clay, pine bark fines, and black lava mix. I repotted the black pine saplings from the Amazon kits (mini burlap sacs) into that soil after they germinated and sprouted. My Locust and Royal Poinciana trees are doing well, but the black pines keep dying. I thought that that bonsai soil would be good and well draining. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong. I think I’m over watering because when I went to move the soil to another container it was damp. What else can I do? I’m so new, I have 2 more black pines trying to sprout. I don’t need to kill them as well. Please help.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Welcome to the site!

Just recently we had a contest to challenge people to grow JBP bonsai from seed. I would recommend you check out some of the entries - because they give an excellent step-by-step report of how to successfully grow Japanese Black Pine

Thread 'Ryceman3's 6yr JBP Contest Entry'

Jun 25, 2018

And so it begins ... well, for me anyway. Being from the Southern Hemisphere I am patiently waiting for July 1, and have spent the past month or more looking for JBP seeds to work with. They are not so plentiful in this part of the world, and our quarantine laws make importing seed from overseas a no-go zone, so it took a bit of extra effort but I have come up with some.

I managed to get a few from 3 sources.

A local eBay site had the cultivar JBP "Thunderhead", which I think may not be as good for shohin as the growth (from all reports) is a bit coarse - but since this was all I could...

• Ryceman3
• Replies: 175
• Forum: The 2018 Six Year Japanese Black Pine Contest

• 

 

[Empty Mountain]

Are your plants kept inside our outdoors?

 

[Wulfskaar]

With Japanese Black Pine, I've had the best success sowing the seeds in peat, germinating in my garage, then putting outside soon after, allowing to grow for the first year. Then, the following late winter to early spring, repotting into standard bonsai soil (Akadama, Pumice, Lava) with bark fines.

However, many people have great success growing for the first few years in peat + perlite, where perlite is the main component. Using expensive bonsai soil is... expensive.

Make sure not to keep the soil wet. It needs to dry out a little before watering.

 

[Martinm505]

With Japanese Black Pine, I've had the best success sowing the seeds in peat, germinating in my garage, then putting outside soon after, allowing to grow for the first year. Then, the following late winter to early spring, repotting into standard bonsai soil (Akadama, Pumice, Lava) with bark fines.

However, many people have great success growing for the first few years in peat + perlite, where perlite is the main component. Using expensive bonsai soil is... expensive.

Make sure not to keep the soil wet. It needs to dry out a little before watering.

I live in an apartment, but I do have a balcony. You say peat, you mean peat moss or do I just search peat soil? The bonsai kits has them in some compost type soil in tiny sacs. I don’t know if I can keep them in there for a year, especially when there’s currently 2 seeds left that are sprouting in one tiny bag. Any advice is appreciated as I’m a complete newbie to all trees from seeds.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I live in an apartment, but I do have a balcony. You say peat, you mean peat moss or do I just search peat soil? The bonsai kits has them in some compost type soil in tiny sacs. I don’t know if I can keep them in there for a year, especially when there’s currently 2 seeds left that are sprouting in one tiny bag. Any advice is appreciated as I’m a complete newbie to all trees from seeds.

Yes, just straight peat moss has worked best for me. I've germinated a few in regular garden soil, but many died soon after germination. There are many variations and methods that all work, so this is just what I know. The thread that bonsainut posted above is from the winner of the 6 year JBP from seed contest. You can see how he got his started, as he used several different methods. There are also other threads from the same contest that might help you.

Once they lose their seed casing, you definitely want to have them outside. Protect from extreme temps. Once they have the first set of needles, they can take direct sunlight.

Here's my version of your thread from when I started, where I thought I had killed them with too much water and not enough sun...
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/damping-off.46132/

Besides getting a ton of help here on bonsainut.com, this guy's videos have helped me with JBP specifically. Watch and pay attention to when he talks about the soil he uses. I think it's perlite and peat moss, which should be very cheap and easy to use.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bonsaify+black+pine

As for germinating, I just soaked the seeds in water for 24 hrs, then sowed in the peat moss.

Good luck and have fun. If they don't work out, just try again.

 

[Martinm505]

Thanks so much. I have 2 locust trees doing well, about 4-6 inches tall, one Royal Poinciana about 6 inches tall. I also am trying to germinate Jacaranda from the Amazon kit and elm and blue spruce from just another seed pack. I’m hoping with all the seeds I try to germinate and sprout I’ll have at least 1 or 2 bonsai trees in about 5 years.

 

[Martinm505]

Yes, just straight peat moss has worked best for me. I've germinated a few in regular garden soil, but many died soon after germination. There are many variations and methods that all work, so this is just what I know. The thread that bonsainut posted above is from the winner of the 6 year JBP from seed contest. You can see how he got his started, as he used several different methods. There are also other threads from the same contest that might help you.

Once they lose their seed casing, you definitely want to have them outside. Protect from extreme temps. Once they have the first set of needles, they can take direct sunlight.

Here's my version of your thread from when I started, where I thought I had killed them with too much water and not enough sun...
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/damping-off.46132/

Besides getting a ton of help here on bonsainut.com, this guy's videos have helped me with JBP specifically. Watch and pay attention to when he talks about the soil he uses. I think it's perlite and peat moss, which should be very cheap and easy to use.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bonsaify+black+pine

As for germinating, I just soaked the seeds in water for 24 hrs, then sowed in the peat moss.

Good luck and have fun. If they don't work out, just try again.

Just checked your page. Just a quick comment, yes that’s exactly what my 2 sprouted black pines did, the same as yours, then they died.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Thanks so much. I have 2 locust trees doing well, about 4-6 inches tall, one Royal Poinciana about 6 inches tall. I also am trying to germinate Jacaranda from the Amazon kit and elm and blue spruce from just another seed pack. I’m hoping with all the seeds I try to germinate and sprout I’ll have at least 1 or 2 bonsai trees in about 5 years.

It happens. On mine, once they survive a year or two, their prospects for living seem to increase drastically.

I was in your shoes in 2020, starting with only a "bonsai seed" kit. Just as was recommended to me, I also recommend getting nursery stock or a tree already in a bonsai pot to work on. While I LOVE growing from seed, I've also had a lot of fun and have begun learning bonsai techniques with older trees while the seedlings are left to grow. Nursery trees don't cost a ton and will save you years of growing.

 

[rockm]

Adding your location (general like country, state. USDA hardiness zone) will help us help you. For instance if you live in an area that gets frosts and freezes leaving poinciana outside will kill it.

 

[Martinm505]

Adding your location (general like country, state. USDA hardiness zone) will help us help you. For instance if you live in an area that gets frosts and freezes leaving poinciana outside will kill it.

I live in Albuquerque, NM, USA.

 

[Martinm505]

It happens. On mine, once they survive a year or two, their prospects for living seem to increase drastically.

I was in your shoes in 2020, starting with only a "bonsai seed" kit. Just as was recommended to me, I also recommend getting nursery stock or a tree already in a bonsai pot to work on. While I LOVE growing from seed, I've also had a lot of fun and have begun learning bonsai techniques with older trees while the seedlings are left to grow. Nursery trees don't cost a ton and will save you years of growing.

Next spring I plan on finding a few 5 year old junipers to began learning the bonsai techniques.