Soil

Matt Gleason

Seedling
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Racine Wisconsin
ok let me start off by saying I know ther has been a million "soil wars" but what I'm looking for isn't a prefect mix special formula. I'm looking for a big box store (Home Depot) mix has anyone come up with a soil mix where you don't have to order small bags off the internet of hard to find items. I can not seem to find small enough red lava rock. I can find perlite, pea gravel, Napa oildry (the stuff that doesn't turn to mush), different types of mulch , orchid mulch, locally I have Home Depot menards ace hardware and Lowe's has anyone achieved a mix like this
 
A good start is to realize that the vast majority of deciduous trees do perfectly well in an organically based substrate. To make that, all you need is fine orchid bark (seedling grade - and Orchiata is the best) and gravel. (say 2 to 5 mm) You will be repotting most of them every year and at the very very most every 3 years. You absolutely don't need to add anything else to that. There is no need to worry about root rot or anything like that. I've grown all my deciduous trees in that for 30 years. You can get both those in bulk and also in various grades as well. (the bark from orchid nurseries) For conifers, you may need to increase the mineral (inorganic) content. Growstone? Charcoal?
 
Tried it (sand and gravel, sand, gravel and pine bark)
Soil was too wet and dense and heavy
Trees didnt get good root growth, lived but did not thrive, some got sick
Started changing my soil last year
Trees much happier
If youre concerned about cost, the solution Ive come up with is fewer, happier and healthier trees in better soil.
 
"Paradox, post: 378562, member: 13514"]Tried it (sand and gravel, sand, gravel and pine bark)
Soil was too wet and dense and heavy
Trees didnt get good root growth, lived but did not thrive, some got sick
Too much sand.
 
If youre concerned about cost, the solution Ive come up with is fewer, happier and healthier trees in better soil.

I really love this piece of advice....
A lot!
_________

If you can get Napa 8822...
Just use it alone...sifted....and find Itaday's phone number!

My happiest trees are in pure sifted 8822.

If there is a better poor man's soil...
I guarantee we sniffed it already!

And you're in Wisconsin!? Perfect.

Adding anything really just ruins it...
And it makes life suck.

Depot pine fines, make it dry out faster, then it's a...."should I water again?" episode.
Any larger bark hunks takes away from its greatness too..besides...roots growing in bark are just a pain in the utter.

Add anything smaller and it's gonna be too wet too long.

Sifted 8822...
Water every morning, and you can fish till sundown.
Lessin it's 95 out...but even I can't fish ALL day when it's 95.

Sorce
 
http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/t...AwU5TAM5961_dfY1FtsGW3CEVJ7gQVfCvQaAqq08P8HAQ

This is the go to if you just want easy. In the summer in my area water everyday in the morning it. Matthew ouwinga grows all his stock in straigh turface. Helps give great roots and doesn't stay to moist you must fertilize since there's no organized.

Or you could contact Adams bonsai $5 a gallon of bonsai mix. I got 4 gallons shipped to my door for 39$ your farther away so may cost a bit more on shipping but we'll worth it.
 
Yikes, before you do that, do some research...call around and see if a local nursery or farm/feed/turf store carries it. I recently purchased 3 bags of turface MVP for under $10 a bag.
NAPA 8822 (or whatever the number is) should be available locally and is about the same price.


Yes sorry wasn't thinking to say buy here just buy this.
 
ok let me start off by saying I know ther has been a million "soil wars" but what I'm looking for isn't a prefect mix special formula. I'm looking for a big box store (Home Depot) mix has anyone come up with a soil mix where you don't have to order small bags off the internet of hard to find items. I can not seem to find small enough red lava rock. I can find perlite, pea gravel, Napa oildry (the stuff that doesn't turn to mush), different types of mulch , orchid mulch, locally I have Home Depot menards ace hardware and Lowe's has anyone achieved a mix like this
I feel this is something worth saying in everyone of these threads so I will type it again:
What are you repotting? By that I mean- are you taking mature, heavy trunked Bonsai ready for refinement and trying to pot them down to Bonsai trays to begin the process of slowing growth and miniaturizing leaves, building fine branch ramification...? Or, are you working with young stock you are really just starting to trading and get ready to be Bonsai one day down the road? If you are working with the later (PRE-Bonsai), then use large nursery cans and POTTING SOIL. yes. Potting soil... Pro mix, Miracle grow... Something high quality if you want to use a ready made mix... If you want to make your own (I do... Saves money for those of us with WAY too many trees)- I mix spagnum peat moss with perlite and tiny bark chips labeled "soil conditioner"... Mix in a bit of plant tone fertilizer for nutrients and sometime I add a bit of turface to add weight but sand would work fine too... It is an absolute MYTH that heavy organic soils cause issues. FANTASY LAND. Dry trees=DEAD TREES. Wet trees= happy trees that grow more. Period. Fact.
Root rot is the most over worried about malady for trees in Bonsai today and it almost never causes any tree deaths unless you are keeping your trees in bowls with no drainage. All this talk of inorganic mixes is for DEVELOPED REFINED TREES IN SMALL BONSAI POTS being cared for by experienced care takers who know how to keep them healthy and want to control watering and nutrients more exactly than your average person.

If you are working with mature BONSAI ready to go into or be repotted in a bonsai pots with a good bonsai soil, order GOOD stuff off the internet. Check eBay, go to the FB groups... Clay King is a solid "name brand" ready made mix, or buy separates of Akabama, pumice, lava and mix then yourself, you can find lava at a good size easily on eBay...
Oh and turface is Ok, but I recommend mixing it with small nuggets of Pune bark and pumice if you are going use it... I have had much better experiences with it when mixed with pumice.. But IMO this tis because PUMICE IS THE SHIZZZZ! Get Pumice if you can only afford one "good ingredient"... It works fine by itself, or with a bit of bark or with turface... Pumice makes all mixes better! Never used the Napa oil dry much but some people swear by it.. It is a type of Diatomacious Earth- porous, drains well but the pieces are small...
 
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Ok wow lots of good info here these are the answers I was looking for and I'm just experimenting now nothing bonsai ready yet but I would like to have my solution when I'm there I have a few things I'm going to have ready maybe spring not sure but knowledge is power! As for the Napa 8822 I have a commercial Napa account so it's 7$ a bag! Not sure about using it straight as mentioned above I was thinking of mixing with some small pea stone I get free! And some sifted bark Probly 40% Napa 40% gravel and 20% bark just looking for a general mix to start with and go from there
 
Ok wow lots of good info here these are the answers I was looking for and I'm just experimenting now nothing bonsai ready yet but I would like to have my solution when I'm there I have a few things I'm going to have ready maybe spring not sure but knowledge is power! As for the Napa 8822 I have a commercial Napa account so it's 7$ a bag! Not sure about using it straight as mentioned above I was thinking of mixing with some small pea stone I get free! And some sifted bark Probly 40% Napa 40% gravel and 20% bark just looking for a general mix to start with and go from there
Why gravel? It adds nothing but weight.
 
small pea stone I get free! And some sifted bark Probly 40% Napa 40% gravel and 20% bark just looking for a general mix to

Adding anything really just ruins it...
And it makes life suck.

Add...the bark will float to the top, the pea gravel will sink, and at first repot you will notice all of your best roots are growing in the middle!

If you want to make a mix, get some turntables....

If you want to use percentages...

How does 100% Awesome sound?

;)

An hour and a half....

You are welcome to stop by and see for yourself!

Sorce
 
Too much sand.

Yes so I tried more gravel and the pots were HEAVY, too heavy. Who wants to do that work if you don't have to? As I get older, I tend to work smarter instead of hurting my back.

Pumice and lava are less than half the weight and retain moisture where gravel does not.

Smoke said:
Why gravel? It adds nothing but weight.

I'm guessing it's because he gets it free.
 
I just picked up 3 big bags of lava at the show for $20.00 a bag. Ordering me up some pumice too. Building my own boons mix out of those and DE.
DE is great straight(I've used it for a while now) but once you use a mix with the lava and pumice you will want those in there too. The trees grow even better and I'm still only watering once per day. Even though it's in the 90s now.
 
I just picked up 3 big bags of lava at the show for $20.00 a bag. Ordering me up some pumice too. Building my own boons mix out of those and DE.
DE is great straight(I've used it for a while now) but once you use a mix with the lava and pumice you will want those in there too. The trees grow even better and I'm still only watering once per day. Even though it's in the 90s now.

I do the same minus the DE. I've also been watering once a day even with the heat. I can sometimes skip a day on some trees if its really humid.
 
I just picked up 3 big bags of lava at the show for $20.00 a bag. Ordering me up some pumice too. Building my own boons mix out of those and DE.
DE is great straight(I've used it for a while now) but once you use a mix with the lava and pumice you will want those in there too. The trees grow even better and I'm still only watering once per day. Even though it's in the 90s now.
So what would be a good mix of lava pumice and de and good sources to get them I can only seem to find them in smaller amounts for way too much money
 
You just have to resign yourself to paying "a lot of money" for smaller amounts if you don't have any bulk distributors in your area. Unfortunately there aren't many bulk distributors of lava and pumice in the eastern states. That's why many of us use stuff like turface or napa 8822. If you just have a few trees, then the overall cost of the pumice and lava isn't too large...but it starts to add up when you have lots of trees.
 
Shop around.
I've bought different components from different suppliers. If you have a bonsai show that happens near you, you can get soil components without paying shipping. A lot of places use flat rate boxes to save money.

I've sourced soil components from the following vendors.

Lava and pumice mix - Stone Lantern
Pumice - Mecco Bonsai at MABS show
Akadama - Mecco and Bonsai Learning
Center
Lava at MABS show but forgetting vendor. Can get it from Mecco or BLC.
 
I just picked up 3 big bags of lava at the show for $20.00 a bag. Ordering me up some pumice too. Building my own boons mix out of those and DE.
DE is great straight(I've used it for a while now) but once you use a mix with the lava and pumice you will want those in there too. The trees grow even better and I'm still only watering once per day. Even though it's in the 90s now.
I have had to start sifting my soil mix since I added lava. Or at least lava ...it's so dusty.
 
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