Special conditions for germinated maple seeds?

Gori

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This year I am trying a bunch of seeds of new species: orange dream and floating cloud maples (at least this is what the seller says). I have just a few of them germinated so far, but they do not make much progress (or do not make any progress) since germinated for one/two weeks comparing to the trident maples. So I am wondering if they may require special conditions like temperature, lighting or watering? As far as I could see, floating cloud may require partial shade -- does same apply to the starters? I currently apply strong artificial lighting for all new starters. The temperature is around 58F.
 

leatherback

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Maple seeds need a period of cold wet stratification (And in the case of seeds that have been dry stored for longer periods of time, a period of warm wet stratification before that. Did you give them their waking up routine?
 

Gori

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Maple seeds need a period of cold wet stratification (And in the case of seeds that have been dry stored for longer periods of time, a period of warm wet stratification before that. Did you give them their waking up routine?
Yes, they germinated in the fridge during stratification after about 7 weeks. But I started stratification as soon as received the seeds and did not know/ask about how long they been stored to do the warm wet stratification - just did regular soaking. So that could cause growing issue?
 

leatherback

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It might. But probably not. How long have you had seeds germinating now? I find germination may spread out over weeks (And I get maples germinating a year later too)
 

Shibui

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Some species have long viability but some others lose viability in storage. Maple seed germinates really well when fresh but is known to enter deep dormancy when stored for a few years then it becomes increasingly difficult to wake them up again even with normal treatment.
Fresh seed is always better and much easier to get good germination.
JM varieties will not grow true from seed. Some types will give you a good proportion of similar trees but others rarely produce seedlings even vaguely similar. No seedlings can be given the parent's name as there is always recombining of genes in seed. Every seedling is a new variety. Cross pollination makes the recombining of characteristics much worse and who knows where the bees have been. Named varieties can only truly be propagated by asexual means - cuttings, graft or layers.

Have fun with the seedlings but despite the seller giving you a variety name of the parent all these seedlings are just Acer palmatum unless you decide to give each a new name.
 

Gori

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I might not correctly expressed myself, my apology. I did not mean an issue with actual germination of new seeds, but progress with growing of those few which germinated. Since that a few just died and a few actually have had pretty good progress. Thanks everybody for the comments.
 

Gori

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JM varieties will not grow true from seed. Some types will give you a good proportion of similar trees but others rarely produce seedlings even vaguely similar. No seedlings can be given the parent's name as there is always recombining of genes in seed. Every seedling is a new variety. Cross pollination makes the recombining of characteristics much worse and who knows where the bees have been. Named varieties can only truly be propagated by asexual means - cuttings, graft or layers.
When I originally came to create this post, I saw another topic talking about this, but this one just clearly summarize the situation. At this point I can't go back, but even if I could, I would only consider seeds from financial standpoint. I just like maples and this will be yet another specie to my collection. Those which germinated, did not show any signs of special coloring.
 

penumbra

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I find JM seedlings grow very little the first year but really take off second year. Somewhere in the archives are pictures from a month or so back.
 

Shibui

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After germination your seedlings will need feeding to grow well. I start fertilizer as soon as the first seedlings open real leaves. Also enough sun for them to produce food for growth.
Dying seedlings is often from fungal infection - damping off - when the stem collapses and the seedling wilts and falls over. It spreads real quick so fungicide is the best remedy. Plenty of sun and not too much water is the best preventative so you don't have to deal with it in the first place.
Some of yours are growing well now so you have success. There will be differences in growth for every seedling as each is an individual with slightly different genes. Difference is normal but still try to maximize growth with good nutrients, water and light.
 

Gori

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After germination your seedlings will need feeding to grow well. I start fertilizer as soon as the first seedlings open real leaves.
I was under impression that fertilizers should be used for plants from seeds starting year 2?
 

Gori

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Dying seedlings is often from fungal infection - damping off - when the stem collapses and the seedling wilts and falls over. It spreads real quick so fungicide is the best remedy.
I wish I knew it a few years ago. I thought it is just different viability/genetic/constitution of individual seeds.
 

leatherback

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I was under impression that fertilizers should be used for plants from seeds starting year 2?
There are many ways of doing things. Fertilizing early gets you a stronger growing plant and thus a bigger plant faster. If you do not fertilize for the first year your plant will grow slower. It might (!) get shorter internodes which is positive. But it will also stay significantly smaller.
 

Shibui

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I was under impression that fertilizers should be used for plants from seeds starting year 2?
What is your seeding going to live on in the first 2 years? A seed has enough stored food to get the plant started but after that it needs to find nutrients to build more tissue.
Seedlings will usually survive on the nutrients in the soil mix and the water but without extra nutrients growth will be slow.
Slow growth, short internodes and small leaves may be what you want for bonsai but most of us want the seedlings to grow and thicken a bit quicker so fertilizer from first leaves is the best way to go.
 

penumbra

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What is your seeding going to live on in the first 2 years?
That was the first thing I wanted to say but I knew someone else would say it more eloquently ... and you have.
 

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