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chansen

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Here is a small stand I'm making from some walnut from a tree struck by lightning in our front yard a few years ago. It's a simple design with dimensions approx. 9 x 13 x 1.5 and biscuit joinery for strength. I've done cabinetry work before but this is my first bonsai stand and while the quality is not perfect I think it's quite good.

It's sanded to 320 grit but I'm not certain of the best way to finish it. The two wood finishes I typically use are a hand-rubbed clear laquer and a tung oil. Both give a satin surface but the lacquer is going to be thicker and smoother while the tung oil will be thinner and will allow pores to still be seen. Opinions are appreciated! Also up for debate is the option of staining it darker. The varnish will darken it quite a bit but it may still not be as dark as many stands typically used.

I would like to eventually make stands for sale and am excited to improve my skills and try new techniques and designs.

Nice work! I just finished a 6' diameter round kitchen table for my wife (Christmas present). I finished the table with a wash coat of de-waxed shellac, then three coats of General Finishes High Performance (it's a poly-acrylic). High Performance is water based and low VOC, which I wanted since it's in the kitchen. I sanded to 320, and then lightly sanded after each coat dried. I'm going to go over it with fine steel wool and a wax for a low-sheen polish. Not saying tung oil is a bad route to go, but if you wanted something different that's a good way too.

I've got a ton of scrap from the kitchen table and plan on making a few stands. Thanks for the motivation :).
 

Velodog2

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That's a pretty complicated finish chansen. What wood? Pics? There seem to be a lot a accomplished woodworkers on here.

Honestly I may not have known that oscillating spindle sanders existed, or what they were used for. I used some small files to smooth out saw marks and I think my stand may be too small to have used the sander for that, but it's a great idea. I'm working on figuring out how it could shape a large curved surface. The flip-stand is awesome too! I didn't even know how much I didn't know.

I've got a couple coats of tung oil applied to the stand and it's looking pretty good. It's darkened up pretty nicely, although I think it could still stand to be darker.
 

chansen

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That's a pretty complicated finish chansen. What wood? Pics? There seem to be a lot a accomplished woodworkers on here.

Honestly I may not have known that oscillating spindle sanders existed, or what they were used for. I used some small files to smooth out saw marks and I think my stand may be too small to have used the sander for that, but it's a great idea. I'm working on figuring out how it could shape a large curved surface. The flip-stand is awesome too! I didn't even know how much I didn't know.

I've got a couple coats of tung oil applied to the stand and it's looking pretty good. It's darkened up pretty nicely, although I think it could still stand to be darker.

It's not really complicated. The shellac coat seals up the wood, it also darkens it a bit and brings out the grain. Since I used a clear finish over it (High Performance), I had to go with de-waxed shellac. The clear coat gets hazy over time with a waxed shellac (doesn't stick to wax!). At a basic level, finishing processes are the same no matter the finish you choose. You apply a coat, let it dry, sand, and then apply the next coat.

If you've already started with the tung oil, keep with it. You can get a nice finish with it. There are lots of options out there when it comes to finishing wood, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Oil takes time to fully cure, continues to darken over time, and doesn't give you much/any abrasion resistance. But it's easy to repair and easy to apply. There's also a very real issue with clean up/managing the rags/brushes you use to apply it. If not left to dry in open air, they can combust. The water based finish I use gives some abrasion and water resistance, it cleans up easily and goes on easily. It's not as easy to repair as oil though, but since it tends to be a harder finish it's less likely to need it. There are lots of other finishes out there too, but I tend to use either a drying oil (tung or boiled linseed) or the de-waxed shellac/High Performance combo. I'm not setup for spraying large projects, so I tend to avoid lacquer unless the project is small enough to use a rattle can. Here's a good breakdown of a bunch of different finishes: http://www.rockler.com/how-to/finishing-comparison-guide/

The table is solid walnut. Top is just under 2" thick, the legs are about 2.25" thick.

20161230_095144.jpg 20161231_154723.jpg
 

Velodog2

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Awwwwww! That is excellent both in design and execution! Beautiful walnut. Lucky wife!

I don't know how or if tung oil differs from other oil finishes but it seems to provide reasonable scratch and wear resistance on my maple floors. That however was applied in thick coats with a lambs wool pad and left to dry so the resulting thickness is much more substantial than with the apply and wipe or sand method I'm using on the stand. I think I like the more natural look that method gives with visible pores. I had good results on some cherry raised panel doors brushing on lacquer and rubbing with steel wool. But I have a lot to learn about finishes too it would appear.
 

chansen

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Awwwwww! That is excellent both in design and execution! Beautiful walnut. Lucky wife!

I don't know how or if tung oil differs from other oil finishes but it seems to provide reasonable scratch and wear resistance on my maple floors. That however was applied in thick coats with a lambs wool pad and left to dry so the resulting thickness is much more substantial than with the apply and wipe or sand method I'm using on the stand. I think I like the more natural look that method gives with visible pores. I had good results on some cherry raised panel doors brushing on lacquer and rubbing with steel wool. But I have a lot to learn about finishes too it would appear.

Thanks! She's really happy with it (and so am I).

If you're using a pure oil made for finishing wood, they're all approximately the same. Some products sold as oils (e.g. Danish oil), have more than just oil in them so they perform a little differently. I don't know a lot about finishing either, but I have a couple good local resources, so I rely heavily on them. Make sure to post pics when the stand is done.
 

leatherback

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i read this thread and cannot help but wonder.. Do you all have comeplete woodworking sheds at home, with plenty of planers, mills, etcetc? I cannot even begin to imagine what would be needed to makethese, nor how to go bout it. Love the results here though! And I am just hapy to get crude bonsai standss for the garden together :(

If anyone would care to give an overview at some point.. Highly appreciated.
 

BrianBay9

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i read this thread and cannot help but wonder.. Do you all have comeplete woodworking sheds at home, with plenty of planers, mills, etcetc? I cannot even begin to imagine what would be needed to makethese, nor how to go bout it. Love the results here though! And I am just hapy to get crude bonsai standss for the garden together :(

If anyone would care to give an overview at some point.. Highly appreciated.

I second this request. I've just started taking some basic woodworking classes, but they seem designed to sell high end shop equipment. I keep having to ask the instructor how to do a step without that $2,000 piece of equipment.

Looks like you can go a long way with access to a table saw, router and lots and lots of clamps.

Brian
 

Smoke

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I second this request. I've just started taking some basic woodworking classes, but they seem designed to sell high end shop equipment. I keep having to ask the instructor how to do a step without that $2,000 piece of equipment.

Looks like you can go a long way with access to a table saw, router and lots and lots of clamps.

Brian
....and a chop saw, numerous sanding devices, a drill press, biscuit joiner, thickness planer, jointer, and band/scroll saw!
 

Velodog2

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Good questions. I am not as well-equipped, so to speak, as many of these other gentlemen. I get by on the tools my father left me, which are not insubstantial but still a mix of quality, in a messy basement.

If you can get wood planed to thickness then I agree you can go a long way with a tablesaw. That plus clamps and an orbital sander are all I used to make these cherry doors for a closet.
IMG_0558.JPG

I waited to get a scroll saw to make the stand but in reality could have cut the curves with a coping saw since it's small. I also needed the router to round the edges, and a biscuit joiner although that was optional. Since I was using rough cut lumber I used a planer also.

Perhaps someone could make a recommendation for a quality, precise portable table saw for someone getting started.
 

Velodog2

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Here is the stand finished. It darkened acceptably for me, although some again may prefer darker.
IMG_4244.JPG

I'd gone over the wood with 400 grit sandpaper before beginning. It has about 6 applications of tung oil with either sanding or buffing with steel wool in between. I buffed it to a satin finish with steel wool after the last application, although some may prefer glossier. I'm pleased with the result.

Ready to assemble my second which is a similar design but square about 10x10. I believe a low stand like this is good for displaying literati trees which are often in round pots, so I think a square stand would be useful. After this I have a more complicated design in mind I am looking forward to beginning. Thanks again for everyone's encouragement.
 

Velodog2

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Torture testing results.

I had always been suspicious of the design of this stand because it did not allow for the expansion of the main table part relative to the sides/legs. Wood expands mostly perpendicular to the grain due mostly to changes in moisture content driven eventually by humidity changes once the wood has been cured. This design, which I copied mostly from an instructional internet posting by someone who sells stands, has the grain of the table top running perpendicular to the grain of the sides/legs on two of the sides, so the expansion rates will not match. I wasn't sure what would happen, but the poster sold stands of this design, albeit of rosewood rather than walnut, which has an only slightly lower expansion coefficient, so there was reason to think it wouldn't be too much problem. I was waiting for someone with stand building experience to call me out on this design flaw, but it didn't happen.

I'd made two stands in this manner, this one and a second square one, both during winter in a cook and relatively dry basement. I tested them this summer by bringing the square one upstairs into the sometimes air conditioned,
sometimes not main house, and leaving the other in the basement, where I turned off the dehumidifier. The basement became extremely damp and this stand eventually split at two of the corners along the joints. The splits were substantial - around 3/32" each. The square stand maintained under "normal" (including typically humid Maryland summer weather) conditions was fine.

I've brought the split stand upstairs now and after the four days the gaps are nearly closed up again. It will be interesting to see if the joints return to normal eventually.

Two other stands I'd made with proper floating centers designed to avoid this problem were also left in the damp basement for the same amount of time. They showed evidence of the center moving within the frame, as you would expect, but remained structurally sound.

So my conclusion from this test is that yes, this design is not ideal and could show problems in extreme conditions of humidity, but that under more "normal" levels of variation, such as winter-summer seasonal changes, it holds up ok. The more typically designed stands with floating tops survived the torture testing fine. I don't think I will build any more stands like this one as a result. I like the design, but I believe it can be modified to allow the center to float without compromising the overall look significantly. The surprising size of the gaps that opened up on the seams confirmed the need for substantial clearance in the floating frame stands.
 

Vance Wood

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This is why most table tops are either free of any type of border with grain running in different directions, or free floating and set into rabbits or some other uncemented joint that allows for the movement in either the top or the base.
 

Tieball

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This is why most table tops are either free of any type of border with grain running in different directions, or free floating and set into rabbits or some other uncemented joint that allows for the movement in either the top or the base.
Interesting. I didn't know about the wood's movement. That will help me in future wood work. Thanks.
 

Tieball

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@Velodog2
It will be interesting to see your next approaches that feature the float design. I look forward to seeing more work from you.
 
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