Summer collection of Texas Persimmon

[Goodbrake]

With the inspiration and gentle prompting of @NaoTK , and the generosity of a friend who lives out in the country with more persimmons than you can shake a stick at, I've gone and collected two in the heat of summer.

For those unaware, there are reasons to believe persimmon deal with root work best in the middle of summer when they're active, rather than when they're dormant or emerging from dormancy in the winter and early spring. I'll be updating this thread with their health to see if summer collection yields good results with these.

 

[Goodbrake]

For the rationale, here's the thread that inspired this act of moderate lunacy.

Thread 'Summer Repotting of Chojubai and Princess Persimmon' https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/summer-repotting-of-chojubai-and-princess-persimmon.61163/

 

[Goodbrake]

All collected and boxed up in pumice and spaghnum, I have one large multi trunk persimmon, and one smaller taller persimmon. I pruned back the large one and kept the small one untouched to see how the foliage mass affects recovery. They're both going to sit in the shade on the north side of my house.

 

[Goodbrake]

As far as root mass, there's a small amount of fine roots but for both most of the rootage was coarse tubers that needed cutting back. Both trees were screwed into their boxes so they shouldn't shift or wiggle at all. Wounds were cleaned up and treated with liquid cut paste. It's hard to see in the photo but there's about 3 dozen small drainage holes drilled into the bottom of each box, so drainage isn't a problem.

 

[Goodbrake]

Admittedly, this feels crazy. It's 100 degrees today and I myself am recovering from a mild bit of heat exhaustion. However if these do anything other than immediately will and die, then the summer collection/repotting theory is standing on solid ground as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BrightsideB]

Congratulations on trying it out. It’s a learning process for sure. For me I only really do spring collection if I can. Doesn’t matter the genus or species. Once the tree becomes active early spring. It’ll be primed to handle the stress easier. And quickly recover. But it’s not definite. People have success at all times.

This Zelkova is now growing like crazy. Cutting the roots back also allowed to develop more feeder roots near the base priming it for a small pot. Not trying to hijack your thread. Just wanted to share because when I started collecting I was to cautious and it set me back on the development timeframe. I also didn’t tie this one down. Roots started growing within a couple weeks and it was stuck after about a month. Make sure to bury the nebari an inch minimum to protect its new roots from drying. It’ll also help hold it in place. Good luck!

 

[BrightsideB]

The clump you collected is also awesome!

 

[Goodbrake]

Thanks! Apparently growers in Asia work persimmons in the summer, and they get a fair bit of heat there too. Something about them having momentum to bounce back easier. We'll have to see how this turns out.

 

[rockm]

Admittedly, this feels crazy. It's 100 degrees today and I myself am recovering from a mild bit of heat exhaustion. However if these do anything other than immediately will and die, then the summer collection/repotting theory is standing on solid ground as far as I'm concerned.

They will most likely sprout new growth this fall. It will be NEXT spring that will be the test for them as they push new growth etc.

 

[Goodbrake]

Fingers crossed

 

[NaoTK]

Wow, nice work, I will be following closely. It's interesting that they look exactly like princess persimmon in terms of rooting habit. Were they super plentiful in their habitat?
The smaller one has a good chance. I would be tempted to cut it back significantly to balance the root mass. At least, when I top pruned significantly during the summer repot I have been successful. But you are in uncharted territory so who knows!

 

[Goodbrake]

There were tons of them out there, about 3 to 5 feet high. Several mature fruiting ones too but not remotely collectable, nor would the land owner want to get rid of those.

 

[NaoTK]

Of course there is a lot of publications on texana, and a whole bunch of other species I never heard of

D. texana is more closely related to South American species Diospyros cayennensis, Diospyros longifolia, Diospyros guianensis, and Diospyros tetrandra, and is also associated with North American species Diospyros crassinervis (Cuba), Diospyros tetrasperma, and Diospyros yatesiana

Temperate Tree Fruits of North America: Malus Mill., Prunus L., Diospyros L., and Asimina Adans

North America has four native temperate tree fruit genera that have played key cultural roles due to their edible fruit and medicinal uses and have also been valuable as hardwood: Malus Mill. (apple), Prunus L. (cherry, plum, peach, etc.), Diospyros L. (persimmon),...

link.springer.com

It is viewed as a weed by some! https://www.cabidigitallibrary.org/doi/full/10.5555/19782320991

 

[Goodbrake]

Can I get my D. sandwicensis on rye?

 

[Goodbrake]

Admittedly, this feels crazy. It's 100 degrees today and I myself am recovering from a mild bit of heat exhaustion.

If AccuWeather is to be believed, yesterday was 103 F, and was the hottest day of the year.

 

[rockm]

Wow, nice work, I will be following closely. It's interesting that they look exactly like princess persimmon in terms of rooting habit. Were they super plentiful in their habitat?
The smaller one has a good chance. I would be tempted to cut it back significantly to balance the root mass. At least, when I top pruned significantly during the summer repot I have been successful. But you are in uncharted territory so who knows!

Texas persimmon has long been used in Texas as native bonsai material. I know the collector i got my live oak from in the mid 90s had quite a few. They have been used farther back than that. Successfully collection it Ike is typically early February

Texas Persimmon #4 - burned out hollow trunk

Bonsai in Austin, Texas with urban and wild Yamadori (collected trees).

hotbonsai.blogspot.com

 

[Goodbrake]

It's been a week since collection, and we've had some heat. Both trees have lost some foliage, but the remaining leaves on the larger cut back tree still looks green and vibrant, while the leaves on the unpruned smaller tree are turning grey and crispy. They get watered in the morning and misted in the afternoon when the heat is above 95 degrees. I'll continue to monitor them but at the moment it appears cutting them back might be important to survival.

 

[rockm]

FWIW the long time Austin-based collector I got my live oak from told me that the if the live oaks he collected dropped their existing leaves, they were the ones likely to survive. They’re trees that kept leaves tended to die completely

I realize they’re two different species but the leaf drop thing makes survival sense as the tree abandons trying to support a losing battle to keep leaves in favor of pushing new roots and then new foliage

 

[Goodbrake]

FWIW the long time Austin-based collector I got my live oak from told me that the if the live oaks he collected dropped their existing leaves, they were the ones likely to survive. They’re trees that kept leaves tended to die completely

I realize they’re two different species but the leaf drop thing makes survival sense as the tree abandons trying to support a losing battle to keep leaves in favor of pushing new roots and then new foliage

Interesting. I plan to let the trees both play out and see what happens regardless.

 

[Wood]

...the live oaks he collected dropped their existing leaves, they were the ones likely to survive....

Does that imply that collecting them and defoliating might be a good strategy? I've successfully done that on a couple of styrax air layers when there have been very few roots after separating