Sumo Japanese Quince Material

[nickbachman]

Doesn't sound right together, does it? I found this interesting unlabeled thornless flowering quince at the nursery today. At first it looked like a bunch of suckers, but looking closer revealed a bird nest style "trunk" of tigthly gnarled trunks and roots about the shape of a big fat pine cone, with branches popping all out of it. The "trunk" in the center is about softball sized, 4.5" tall and 6" wide at the base. It's very tightly packed, light does not pass through the center section. It's going out of leaf for the season, but almost everything you see is live growth (after an hour of tweezering fallen leaves and a few small dead branches out of the thicket). Not sure of the variety, but the leaves are quite small. The largest left on the plant are still smaller than a quarter.

I'm not too familiar with quince and I really don't want to kill it. Am I alright repotting it an cutting it back a bit in the spring? It has buds all over the new and old wood, even many close to the "trunk." I don't know how much cutting back these can take, I don't want to push it too hard. Also looking for thoughts on canopy shape. Any advice from the Quince guys on the forum? Thanks for looking!

 

[fredtruck]

What a nice find! You can cut it back like that, but I wouldn't do it until after it has flowered in the spring. Then you have the job of designing what you want it to look like. Read up on flowering quince. There's lots of information out there, including some recent issues of International Bonsai. Best of luck.

 

[nickbachman]

Thanks for the reply, Fred! Glad to know it can take some cutting. In that case, I'd probably cut it back to 1-2 inches around the cone and thin it out a bit. The branches are all really flexible, even the old ones, so I may do some wiring and leave it slightly longer. I'll read up as much as I can so I don't send this one out to pasture.

Fred, we actually met about 10 years ago when I was a freshman in college at ISU. I was briefly a member of the IA Bonsai Association before I transferred up to Minneapolis for art school. Ron Heinen introduced me to the IA community, I grew up with one of his sons. Great guy, great trees. I've always admired your trees too, and hoped you'd find this thread! Thanks again for the thoughts.

 

[fredtruck]

Ron is usually lurking around here, sometimes responds. I'll give him a pointer. It's good to know we've met...Ron is a great guy.

 

[dick benbow]

Just for part of the ramble
Quince usually are designed as single trunk or as the japanese call clump style, Kabudachi.
Of all of my quince, I think all but two are kabudachi.
I do agree with cutting the tree (bush) back after blooming so you can enjoy the color.
They are amazingly resilent. After the new shoots extend and begin hardening you can add some wire to give movement.
Consider removing those beginning shoots that will not add to their position in the overall
design of things.
I've always appreciated Fred's interest in quince. Enjoyed reading your "it's a small world"
conversation....

 

[BonsaiEngineer1493]

Nice, I have two contorted quinces that looked similar to this one when I first got them. They have very nice exposed roots. I already packed them away for winter so I can't take photos at the moment. Basically, I chopped down all the trunks in stages -to start fresh. This can be done during the spring when the leaf buds show some sign of opening. In addition, another time hard pruning can be done is when the trees starts aggressively shedding leafs, which occurs during the wall.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Some decent material to work with come summer...must say...quince keep coming up and intriguing me. Definitely will be looking for these in the nurseries near me to see what I can play around with come spring.

 

[nickbachman]

Thanks everyone for the input! Dick, I appreciate the advice! I'll remove the newer/small shoots when I chop it back in spring. I actually went to the nursery looking for small quince clumps, and found this beast (and actually a few more kind of like him). It reminded me of Don Blackmond's fat $3300 Chojubai, underneath all the long branches. http://www.gregorybeachbonsai.com/resources/IMG_6582.JPG I realize mine's no Chojubai or a big money tree, but having seen that specimen online gave me ideas when I saw my quince at the nursery. I don't know what style you'd call that; it's kind of a clump, right?

Dick, I'd love to see some of your trees. I think I've run across a couple in old posts, but not nearly enough!

Engineer, I'd also like to see yours when you pull them out for spring! Cadillactaste, I've had the same building curiosity for a while now too. Turns out a nursery near my home has the nicest, cheapest ones!

Here are the other two smaller quince clumps I picked up, both "Texas Scarlet" variety. First two shots of the bigger one, it has a spreading stocky shape with a strong base. I bought the last, smallest one for the trunks and came home to notice the nice overall shape of the tree. I'll trim, repot and wire these guys next year. Excited to see the flowers!

 

[dick benbow]

Scarlet's have a really nice red. I'm pleased your getting interested in quince. I think the next one to look for is toyo nishiki. I have serveral old chinese quince which give you something different.

I'm in the process of downsizing and home of 37 years for sale. New house (manufactured home) in gated community is ready for occupancy and the trees are some there some here.

Long story short, pics and other coverage this spring.

For some unknown reason all my quince had a good fruiting year which is another something cool to have flowers and then fruit.

Locally most club members know I'm switching emphasis on things japanse to local trees. But I have to admitt, the quinces are here to stay! Did add a 30 year old bristlecone to my collection yesterday that another club member had raised from a tiny start....

 

[bdwarner]

I'm unfamiliar with Scarlett Q. I notice Nick your located in LA and im just wondering if the scarlett variety only needs a milder winter dormancy? I understand many quinces are very hardy so I'm wondering how far south they will actually grow. I'm unfamiliar with LA's climate as well which dosent really help at all lol. I'm sure they wouldn't be sold locally if they were destined for death. Quince are tough.

Nice trees btw, I won a clump style J quince a few months ago at a club auction, I'm interested to see how it grows compared to my others.. its dormant now. My big new (to me) quince finished shedding its leaves and once I get around to taking some pictures ill probably post a few. There is a lot of useful info on quince in previous threads as well, I will be looking forward to updates!

 

[edprocoat]

I'm unfamiliar with Scarlett Q. I notice Nick your located in LA and im just wondering if the scarlett variety only needs a milder winter dormancy? I understand many quinces are very hardy so I'm wondering how far south they will actually grow. I'm unfamiliar with LA's climate as well which dosent really help at all lol. I'm sure they wouldn't be sold locally if they were destined for death. Quince are tough.

Nice trees btw, I won a clump style J quince a few months ago at a club auction, I'm interested to see how it grows compared to my others.. its dormant now. My big new (to me) quince finished shedding its leaves and once I get around to taking some pictures ill probably post a few. There is a lot of useful info on quince in previous threads as well, I will be looking forward to updates!

BDwarner, I am not familiar with Japanese quince but I have a thought on the California material . I bought a shohin Chinese Quince from a reputable dealer from Calif. off Ebay. It came to me in Florida where I winter and for the next month I enjoyed watching it put out new sticky growth and enjoyed the multi-colored peeling bark on the 1-1/8's inch across trunk. I returned to Ohio where we had a cool to cold summer. I had mites and had to treat weekly for a month, once under control the plant suffered through the coldest july-august ever on record in Ohio. The plant was weak but hung on! The first week of September it was warmer and rainy and the mites returned and after treating them again the tree visibly weakened then died. I think it was a combo of the weather and the mites. I do not know if Calif. gets night time temps in the mid 50's in july and august as we had many nights or if the mites are as severe there as they were here this year but sadly its gone and I never got to repot it or work on it either.

ed

 

[nickbachman]

Dick, I'm glad to hear you're sticking with the Quinces, I'll be looking for your advice. I went a little Quince-happy this week and picked up another big one like the first, but with a heavy single trunk and twiggy broom-like canopy. I also somehow tracked down some Chojubai here in LA, in fact just a few minutes from my house. Got them from a super helpful fellow hobbyist who apparently has quite a few and encouraged me to make cuttings to sell next year. I got 2 clumpy red ones and he very kindly tossed in a white Chojubai rooted cutting as well. Now I'll need to cool it on buying trees for a while...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hi Nick, boy you jumped into Flowering quince with both feet. That is great. I think your mild winters will not be a problem for your quinces. Your big issue will be summer heat, depending on how close to the coast you live. These will need shade when temperatures go over 90 F. They need moderate temps and sun to grow and bloom well. Never let them get too dry, it is the kiss of death.

Your winters are mild enough that autumn repotting might be better than spring repotting, especially if you are far enough from the coast that your summers get over 90 F more than a dozen or so days a year. Heat will induce summer dormancy. Talk with local growers about when they repot. If you spring repot, be sure to do it early enough that you have 2 or 3 months before the 90+ heat hits. They need time for the roots to recover to get them through the stress of a hot, dry summer.

I love all cultivars of flowering quince. I currently have young cuttings from Evergreen Gardenworks of at least 10 different cultivars. A young chojubai is not that different than a young plant of several other cultivars, chojubai really only shows its value once it is over 25 or so years and you start getting the fissured rough bark. My favorites dwarfs are Hime, Kan Toyo and Chojubai. My favorite larger quinces are Kuro, Scarlet Storm, Iwai Nishiki and Toyo Nishiki. Can never settle for just one.

Hi Dick, I can never limit myself to just one 'type' or group of bonsai - too many plants from Japan and China are just too cool to get rid of - just because they are not native. I agree, that in the USA we have some wonderful species for bonsai. I have young starts of Sugar pine (P. lambertina), 2 needle pinion, P. virginiana, P. rigida, and a couple older P. strobus. So I do try my hand at natives. Most of my new acquisitions are natives, including (Amelanchier last month). But I could never get rid of all my non-native trees. Some are just too nice to work with. Besides, there is much to be said in favor of Japanese black pine, it is like the modelling clay of pines, and a huge, species specific volume of literature with how to instructions for JBP. For the native pines, we are often stumbling in the dark. I could die happy with one really nice Hinoki and one really nice Chojubai. A good gnarly, Rocky Mountain Juniper would complete the set.

Attached is a Chojubai I picked up from Evergreen Gardenworks, it was in a 2 inch pot, less than $20. A young plant, needs decades to develop the bark, but I really enjoy it as young as it is.