The 5 to 10+ Year Progression Thread

[grouper52]

Will,

Those branches had been removed LONG before I acquired the tree. Long, as in decades! In fact, they’re nearly calloused over.

JBP deadwood, jins anyway, aren’t long lasting. Dan is overly influenced by the Pacific Northwest. But we all are influenced by the trees we see around us every day. For the longest time, I didn’t “get” the deadwood junipers. We don’t have anything like them here. Any deadwood rots away quickly here. Until I went climbing up on the Sierras. And could visit the thousands-year-old trees with their amazing checkered sun and wind bleached deadwood. No humidity, no insects, no molds, fungus, mildew...no rain for six months of the year... all these factors yield completely different effects on the trees.

Great points - I hadn't given that much thought, but it's great to see the truth and validity of both your viewpoint and Dan's, and realise the enormous impact of such factors both practically and visually. Thanks!

 

[grouper52]

Well, here's another progression I forgot about: a Sub-Alpine Fir literati I got as a throw-in when I bought another tree from Jason Gamby. The progression's only 4 years long 2007-2010, but hey - I'll pay the fine or take the flogging or whatever.... One of my favourite creations, it was bought by some bonsai friends of mine who just had to have it, and died soon thereafter ... Enjoy!

 

[Vin]

It’s a San Jose. It will never go completely scale. I’ve seen one go 95% scale, but that was exceptional. They tend to stay more juvi than scale.

Which is why many great San Jose trunks get grafted with Kishu.

I checked mine when I got home tonight and it's 99.9% scale. It's pretty large stock but that's all it is, pre-bonsai stock. It's one of those trees I never seem to be able to get to. Maybe this spring I'll repot it and get inspired.

 

[Vin]

Not quite 5 years but I pushed this Pro Nana hard. The excessive deadwood really doesn't tell a story so I'll be removing some of it during the next couple years after some careful contemplation.

Here it is a few days after purchase before cleanup.



About a year later.



Finally are two from 2017 and the final image is one from BVF Time Capsule that wasn't posted.

 

[Adair M]

They’re like Procumbens. Leave them

I checked mine when I got home tonight and it's 99.9% scale. It's pretty large stock but that's all it is, pre-bonsai stock. It's one of those trees I never seem to be able to get to. Maybe this spring I'll repot it and get inspired.

alone for a long time, let it get potbound, they go scale. But, as soon as you do something to stimulate growth, like repot, fertilize, prune, etc, the growth hormones kick in and they go juvenile again.

 

[grouper52]

Another old progression I tracked down: a Trident Maple that I think I may have bought from Sharon Muth at Bonsai Northwest in 2007, worked with a few years before it ends up looking quite a bit more gnarly in 2015 after I decided to bury it in the ground for five years. I sold it or gave it away shortly thereafter due to plans to move overseas, so it never came to full fruition under my care, but the changes - for good or bad - may be instructive to folks interested in learning what can be done with starter material. Enjoy!

 

[Marlon]

Here is a 16-year progression. Japanese Maple, Chishio Improved from Gary Wood. Starting in the ground in 2002, every couple years up to 3rd US National Bonsai Exhibition in 2012, and every couple years after. Last 2 are 2018.
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Great work, very educational. Also inspiring. Its easy to focus on different aspects of the tree and how the evolve!

 

[grouper52]

Will,

Those branches had been removed LONG before I acquired the tree. Long, as in decades! In fact, they’re nearly calloused over.

JBP deadwood, jins anyway, aren’t long lasting. Dan is overly influenced by the Pacific Northwest. But we all are influenced by the trees we see around us every day. For the longest time, I didn’t “get” the deadwood junipers. We don’t have anything like them here. Any deadwood rots away quickly here. Until I went climbing up on the Sierras. And could visit the thousands-year-old trees with their amazing checkered sun and wind bleached deadwood. No humidity, no insects, no molds, fungus, mildew...no rain for six months of the year... all these factors yield completely different effects on the trees.

Adair, your post here has continued to gnaw at me a bit, and this afternoon it sent me searching to examine the 50 spreads of the "gallery" section of my book to see exactly what Dan does in the way of deadwood - and especially jins - on deciduous trees, (as distinct from his almost ubiquitous use and imperative thoughts about such on conifers, whose deadwood is inherently less likely to decompose than that of the deciduous trees). Of the fifty trees featured in the Gallery, only 13 are deciduous. Of those, only a boxwood and an azealea feature jins, and the azalea's jins are almost afterthoughts. Although there are also four other deciduous trees that feature prominent deadwood features, jins don't figure in, (except perhaps the hidden one on the second azalea). Here are those six examples, plus another deadwood-rich Bougy of Dan's that I don't think made it into the book.

 

[Adair M]

Adair, your post here has continued to gnaw at me a bit, and this afternoon it sent me searching to examine the 50 spreads of the "gallery" section of my book to see exactly what Dan does in the way of deadwood - and especially jins - on deciduous trees, (as distinct from his almost ubiquitous use and imperative thoughts about such on conifers, whose deadwood is inherently less likely to decompose than that of the deciduous trees). Of the fifty trees featured in the Gallery, only 13 are deciduous. Of those, only a boxwood and an azealea feature jins, and the azalea's jins are almost afterthoughts. Although there are also four other deciduous trees that feature prominent deadwood features, jins don't figure in, (except perhaps the hidden one on the second azalea). Here are those six examples, plus another deadwood-rich Bougy of Dan's that I don't think made it into the book.

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Will, I don’t mean to start a big controversy, all tree’s get some damage and Jin’s at some point. Some is more persistent than others. Sometimes it’s due to the nature of the wood, sometimes it’s due to the nature of the environment where the trees live.

I have watched deciduous trees, and trunks in my pasture go from perfectly healthy, to lightening struck, to dead, to deadwood, to home to woodpeckers, to fallen limbs, to rotten fallen limbs, to gone in about 8 years.

There are some Eastern White Pines a mile away that have snag Jin’s that have been there for at least 18 years, and still appear to be strong, and will continue to be there for a while.

So, it depends. Some trees, deadwood is a permanent feature. Some not.

THAT’s the point I was making about Dan. (And in his later years, Warren Hill, too.). They subscribe to the “Jin everything” school. And I disagree. I think Jin’s have their place, but not tree, not every composition.

Doing so is as dogmatic as the “green helmet” or “over refined” styles. Why should every tree have Jin? Not every tree lives in a harsh environment.

I think part of the beauty, and fun! of bonsai is the medium allows for a great variety of styles and images. Everyone has their favorites and is entitled to have a preference. For instance, I don’t much care for ficus. I don’t want to have to have a special winter set up to maintain tropical trees. But, when I see one that’s well done I can appreciate it.

Dan was able to “appreciate” my JBP’s level of refinement. He didn’t like the scars, but they weren’t recent, had thick rounded, closing callouses. They look “natural” to me, but I guess that’s a personal thing.

It’s interesting what people “see” when they look st a tree. That tree that Dan critiqued had been at the 2016 Nationals about a month prior. Kathy Shaner’s critique was that I should have gone over the tree and colored the tip ends of all the spring candle stubs with a brown manic marker. The tips were kind of white where the sap had dried. But not yet fallen off. By December, the dried sap falls off or is washed off by rain and watering. So, in September, the little sap ends were visible. So Kathy said I should have colored them to hide them! No mention of the pruning scars.

So, there ya go! I guess everyone is entitled to their own pet peeve! Lol!!!

 

[BobbyLane]

Adair, your post here has continued to gnaw at me a bit, and this afternoon it sent me searching to examine the 50 spreads of the "gallery" section of my book to see exactly what Dan does in the way of deadwood - and especially jins - on deciduous trees, (as distinct from his almost ubiquitous use and imperative thoughts about such on conifers, whose deadwood is inherently less likely to decompose than that of the deciduous trees). Of the fifty trees featured in the Gallery, only 13 are deciduous. Of those, only a boxwood and an azealea feature jins, and the azalea's jins are almost afterthoughts. Although there are also four other deciduous trees that feature prominent deadwood features, jins don't figure in, (except perhaps the hidden one on the second azalea). Here are those six examples, plus another deadwood-rich Bougy of Dan's that I don't think made it into the book.

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These look so natural and rugged, while being beautiful on the eye. thanks for sharing. some wonderful progressions on this thread too, nice work guys.

 

[grouper52]

Will, I don’t mean to start a big controversy, all tree’s get some damage and Jin’s at some point ....

So, there ya go! I guess everyone is entitled to their own pet peeve! Lol!!!

No controversy intended! And the "pet peeve" thought is certainly a true but sad observation.

It reminds me of a story in one of Alexander King's four books of memoirs: he was a commercial artist and illustrator, and quite a story-teller, who used to come on some of the late night shows in the early days of television. He tells the story of a commission he accepted once in his youth to draw/paint a full-page spread in a major magazine - an advertisement for a cruise line - where the executives met with him and told him they wanted a very beautiful nighttime scene of the ship's main deck with a band playing and about a hundred nicely-dressed couples waltzing around. It was a big project, and the money involved made it worthwhile, so he worked hard on it for a long time, bringing it to perfection, before bringing it to the executives again to show them and get their approval. When they saw it, they simply sat there in absorbed silence for a long, long time, until finally - when the silence had become quite uncomfortable - one of the executives - knowing nothing of art, but needing to prove his importance as an executive, told King, "It's really very nice ... except I think it would be better if you rotated the entire scene about 15 degrees to the left." (!!!). King then went on to say that he learned his lesson very well that day, and in the future whenever he was asked to paint anything for anyone who had to approve it, he would, for instance, paint one man with two left feet, so that the executive could quickly play his role of giving criticism, yet with the solution for the artist requiring no more than a few minutes to correct.

 

[Adair M]

No controversy intended! And the "pet peeve" thought is certainly a true but sad observation.

It reminds me of a story in one of Alexander King's four books of memoirs: he was a commercial artist and illustrator, and quite a story-teller, who used to come on some of the late night shows in the early days of television. He tells the story of a commission he accepted once in his youth to draw/paint a full-page spread in a major magazine - an advertisement for a cruise line - where the executives met with him and told him they wanted a very beautiful nighttime scene of the ship's main deck with a band playing and about a hundred nicely-dressed couples waltzing around. It was a big project, and the money involved made it worthwhile, so he worked hard on it for a long time, bringing it to perfection, before bringing it to the executives again to show them and get their approval. When they saw it, they simply sat there in absorbed silence for a long, long time, until finally - when the silence had become quite uncomfortable - one of the executives - knowing nothing of art, but needing to prove his importance as an executive, told King, "It's really very nice ... except I think it would be better if you rotated the entire scene about 15 degrees to the left." (!!!). King then went on to say that he learned his lesson very well that day, and in the future whenever he was asked to paint anything for anyone who had to approve it, he would, for instance, paint one man with two left feet, so that the executive could quickly play his role of giving criticism, yet with the solution for the artist requiring no more than a few minutes to correct.

Lol!!!

That reminds me of another Kathy Shaner story! (I’m not trying to pick on Kathy... really!)

The Atlanta Bonsai Society had her as guest artist one month, and it was at a Plant City Bonsai, where I give classes. And she was going to do a demo (where I helped her with a neglected shimpaku) and she was also going to do critiques of club members trees. Well, I had a nice twin trunk JWP, fairly old, that had been given its first styling a couple years before by Daisaku Nomoto, a Kokufu Prize winning artist. After his initial styling, which was rather extensive, I was letting it recover for a couple years. So, it was getting a bit shaggy.

Anyway, I brought it as I thought it had great potential. And all she could talk about were two shoots that had popped up out of the Silohette of the canopy of the tree! And she went on and on about them. I was tempted to just go over and prune them off, and say, “tell me something else!”, but I didn’t.

Lol!!!

 

[River's Edge]

Here is a Mt. Hemlock progression collected 2012, acquired as rough yamadori 2014 and as it is today. I was not very good at taking pictures between.

 

[grouper52]

Adair M:

Great story! I actually have a peculiar soft place in my heart for Kathy Shaner, although I never met her and don't know much about her: I've almost never put my trees in shows or competitions, but one time when I did I was told later (by the couple that eventually bought it) that Kathy Shaner - whom I'd at least heard of - "really liked" my Sub-Alpine Fir Literati (posted above) when it was in a show at about the time of that last photo in the progression: The compliment stands out, and wins her a treasured spot in my mental landscape as the only non-on-line official compliment I've ever had for any of my trees! Amazing how such compliments and criticisms stay with us - funny beasts, us humans!

 

[grouper52]

Here is a Mt. Hemlock progression collected 2012, acquired as rough yamadori 2014 and as it is today. I was not very good at taking pictures between.

Great tree, and the pot suits it well. I've missed the Pacific Northwest conifers, and this one brings back fond memories of why they appeal to me so much. Thanks.

 

[River's Edge]

Great tree, and the pot suits it well. I've missed the Pacific Northwest conifers, and this one brings back fond memories of why they appeal to me so much. Thanks.

Thanks, i spent a couple of days collecting conifers last week, i was unable to collect this hemlock ( picture below ) though. If you look up, way up, it is growing in the crotch of an upper dead branch. The foliage near the middle of the tree is still live foliage on this ancient Red Cedar. It is a shame because i am pretty sure the root ball would be quite contained.

 

[grouper52]

Thanks, i spent a couple of days collecting conifers last week, i was unable to collect this hemlock ( picture below ) though. If you look up, way up, it is growing in the crotch of an upper dead branch. The foliage near the middle of the tree is still live foliage on this ancient Red Cedar. It is a shame because i am pretty sure the root ball would be quite contained.

Whoa!!! LOL! You must know Pete Wilson, whose name figures in the chapter heading, "Pete's Peak and Pete's Bog" in my book about Dan Robinson ... That chapter tells the story of a collecting trip with Pete and George Hefflefinger, and you'll recognise one the photos in the page-spread below from that chapter, showing that exact same tree! Small world! That's God's Country up there where you live, and the best of collecting. Say Hi to Pete for me if you know him and see him!

 

[River's Edge]

Whoa!!! LOL! You must know Pete Wilson, whose name figures in the chapter heading, "Pete's Peak and Pete's Bog" in my book about Dan Robinson ... That chapter tells the story of a collecting trip with Pete and George Hefflefinger, and you'll recognise one the photos in the page-spread below from that chapter, showing that exact same tree! Small world! That's God's Country up there where you live, and the best of collecting. Say Hi to Pete for me if you know him and see him!

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Pete and I along with another friend were collecting together last week! He likes to stop and enjoy special moments like this tree. True Bonsai soul! I will pass on your thoughts. This is a crazy small world! You are probably familiar with the shoe tree as well. I have yet to figure out how to refine the foliage on that tree.
It is nice that it is immortalized in print. My picture was taken last week and i am not noticing significant growth from the one in the book. I wonder how old that hemlock is now.

 

[grouper52]

Yes, please give my hello and best wishes to Pete! I still may make it up there collecting again someday with Dan once I'm back in the States, and if so I'd love to stop by and meet you and re-connect with Pete again!

But I'm not familiar with "The Shoe Tree" - please enlighten me, and post a photo if you've got one!

 

[River's Edge]

Yes, please give my hello and best wishes to Pete! I still may make it up there collecting again someday with Dan once I'm back in the States, and if so I'd love to stop by and meet you and re-connect with Pete again!

But I'm not familiar with "The Shoe Tree" - please enlighten me, and post a photo if you've got one!

The Shoe Tree is an old snag that has been bedecked over the decades with old shoes and boots from the logging community. It is up North on Vancouver island. I will try to find a picture. It is about the same size as the Old Cedar above and covered with shoes and boots top to bottom.

Hope you get the chance to come up collecting again and you are more than welcome to visit.