The Chinese Elm Is In. What Next? Photos Included.

[Isilwen]

I just got home from work and pulled it out of its shipping box. It's a decent little tree. Nothing remarkable about the roots. I did find one thicker root it looks like to me, but it was cut at some point. You might be able to see that in the one photo I took. I do like the straightness of the trunk. However, I'm not sure that a formal upright is in the cards for it as the trunk was definitely cut. I can see where the trunk stops. I am guessing a broom style is what I am looking at, which is what I was going to do if formal upright wasn't in the cards or it lent itself more to a broom style bonsai. I could be wrong though.

Not sure what to do from this point. The instructions said to leave it in the shade for a few days to get over the shock of shipping and then put it in the sun. It also said to wait to repot till it acclimates to the new location. So I will do those things for sure.

What is your take on this little tree and how you would style it and your next steps?

 

[DanaWhicker]

The thickness of the trunk is pretty nice vs. the height of the tree.

 

[PA_Penjing]

Definitely a broom, definitely the best tree species ever.

Since you asked.. I never work a tree right away. Just take care of it and get to know it. Put it somewhere you can stare at it, i spend a lot of time in my yard staring at my trees. Eventually you'll need to decide how tall you want the finished tree to be, the thickness of the trunk and the height of the chop will determine a lot, but so will your personal preferences. Me personally, I'd probably start eliminating branches one by one (slowly through spring) until it was less chaotic and I had a clear vision for the primary branches. But it's your tree

 

[HorseloverFat]

Nice and beefy!!

I agree with PA about waiting some..

I'd personally assess vigor at summer-lull... If it is displaying "Mucho Macho" qualities, you could perform some pruning then..

Any type of HARD prune, I would personally wait until a spring... but not this one.

All that being said, It would probably TOLERATE a bunch of work, right now. Just more variables... My move would be slower.

I'd like to see more pictures... of what's actually going where those branches are leaving the tree... There's a BUNCH of "stuff going" on.. which isn't necessarily bad... many options... I just wanna see ... more of those options.

 

[Isilwen]

Nice and beefy!!

I agree with PA about waiting some..

I'd personally assess vigor at summer-lull... If it is displaying "Mucho Macho" qualities, you could perform some pruning then..

Any type of HARD prune, I would personally wait until a spring... but not this one.

All that being said, It would probably TOLERATE a bunch of work, right now. Just more variables... My move would be slower.

I'd like to see more pictures... of what's actually going where those branches are leaving the tree... There's a BUNCH of "stuff going" on.. which isn't necessarily bad... many options... I just wanna see ... more of those options.

I can get you more pictures. Give me a few minutes.

 

[Isilwen]

@HorseloverFat here you go...

 

[Shibui]

I believe that broom is the formal upright style for deciduous species. Deciduous don't normally do the straight, vertical trunk from base to apex. That's for conifers.

Good broom consists of excellent nebari, vertical trunk and rising branches spreading to an umbrella canopy. Getting the canopy is not too hard but developing really good branch structure for winter viewing is much more of a challenge.
I guess at some stage you'll want to clean up the top of the trunk, possibly make a V cut or similar to reduce swelling as it heals.

 

[rockm]

Don't really understand what you're after--you mention "formal upright" and "broom." Formal upright is typically used for conifers, as it is a conifer form. Broom is used for deciduous, particularly elm and zelkova. As you said formal upright is out of the question. I'd agree, but is that what you're after with a straight trunk? If so, a conifer is going to be much more applicable than a deciduous tree.

As for the elm, the short trunk is the foundation for a broom. That's what it was chopped for. From the look of the interior, you're going to have to mostly eliminate the larger existing shoots. If this were mine, I'd eliminate all the thicker branches coming from the cut site and use the thinner ones as the foundation for the canopy. You might, as suggested, also think about re-cutting the chop into a "V". Elms can sometimes favor pushing shoots only at the tops of the "V" cut. You want to control that a bit if you do this, as some brooms wind up looking like they have two pigtails of branches--you want a few new shoots lower down the "V"

Take look at this zelkova by Adair here on b'nut. This is a pretty excellent broom. Note the branch structure and how the tree is put together...

THE Zelkova

The Zelkova was still in “winter” at the Atlanta Bonsai Society spring show last weekend. The buds were just barely beginning to swell a bit. Now, back at home, they are just bursting open! The new leaves and shoots are purple. With hints of green. I went thru the foliage and trimmed...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[HorseloverFat]

Don't really understand what you're after--you mention "formal upright" and "broom." Formal upright is typically used for conifers, as it is a conifer form. Broom is used for deciduous, particularly elm and zelkova. As you said formal upright is out of the question. I'd agree, but is that what you're after with a straight trunk? If so, a conifer is going to be much more applicable than a deciduous tree.

As for the elm, the short trunk is the foundation for a broom. That's what it was chopped for. From the look of the interior, you're going to have to mostly eliminate the larger existing shoots. If this were mine, I'd eliminate all the thicker branches coming from the cut site and use the thinner ones as the foundation for the canopy. You might, as suggested, also think about re-cutting the chop into a "V". Elms can sometimes favor pushing shoots only at the tops of the "V" cut. You want to control that a bit if you do this, as some brooms wind up looking like they have two pigtails of branches--you want a few new shoots lower down the "V"

Take look at this zelkova by Adair here on b'nut. This is a pretty excellent broom. Note the branch structure and how the tree is put together...

THE Zelkova

The Zelkova was still in “winter” at the Atlanta Bonsai Society spring show last weekend. The buds were just barely beginning to swell a bit. Now, back at home, they are just bursting open! The new leaves and shoots are purple. With hints of green. I went thru the foliage and trimmed...

www.bonsainut.com

LOVE that tree.. it's, ridiculously enough, one of the FIRST Bonsai Trees I ever laid eyes on... AFTER actually beginning my TinyTree journey.

 

[Isilwen]

Don't really understand what you're after--you mention "formal upright" and "broom." Formal upright is typically used for conifers, as it is a conifer form. Broom is used for deciduous, particularly elm and zelkova. As you said formal upright is out of the question. I'd agree, but is that what you're after with a straight trunk? If so, a conifer is going to be much more applicable than a deciduous tree.

As for the elm, the short trunk is the foundation for a broom. That's what it was chopped for. From the look of the interior, you're going to have to mostly eliminate the larger existing shoots. If this were mine, I'd eliminate all the thicker branches coming from the cut site and use the thinner ones as the foundation for the canopy. You might, as suggested, also think about re-cutting the chop into a "V". Elms can sometimes favor pushing shoots only at the tops of the "V" cut. You want to control that a bit if you do this, as some brooms wind up looking like they have two pigtails of branches--you want a few new shoots lower down the "V"

Take look at this zelkova by Adair here on b'nut. This is a pretty excellent broom. Note the branch structure and how the tree is put together...

THE Zelkova

The Zelkova was still in “winter” at the Atlanta Bonsai Society spring show last weekend. The buds were just barely beginning to swell a bit. Now, back at home, they are just bursting open! The new leaves and shoots are purple. With hints of green. I went thru the foliage and trimmed...

www.bonsainut.com

That is a beautiful tree for sure!

So, broom it is for my tree.

Thank you for the suggestion, I am not sure on how to go about making a "v" cut though in the chop. I guess I can find instructions in the forums here or a quick Google search?

 

[HorseloverFat]

(link removed!)
Here's a good one.
EDIT!
Ooooh!!

RockM, I think just meant making the cut concave.. so it heals over..

Here's a discussion on it.

Concave/Convex Cuts

In reading up on trunk chopping I came across many recommendations (at least for certain maples) to make the cuts somewhat concave to allow for better healing. Today I came across an article that recommended rounding the cuts on deciduous trees - i.e., a convex cut. Was wondering if anyone...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Mikecheck123]

I just got home from work and pulled it out of its shipping box. It's a decent little tree. Nothing remarkable about the roots. I did find one thicker root it looks like to me, but it was cut at some point. You might be able to see that in the one photo I took. I do like the straightness of the trunk. However, I'm not sure that a formal upright is in the cards for it as the trunk was definitely cut. I can see where the trunk stops. I am guessing a broom style is what I am looking at, which is what I was going to do if formal upright wasn't in the cards or it lent itself more to a broom style bonsai. I could be wrong though.

Not sure what to do from this point. The instructions said to leave it in the shade for a few days to get over the shock of shipping and then put it in the sun. It also said to wait to repot till it acclimates to the new location. So I will do those things for sure.

What is your take on this little tree and how you would style it and your next steps?

View attachment 427598 View attachment 427599 View attachment 427600 View attachment 427601 View attachment 427602

Wow that was fast. I feel like I just ordered Amazon prime.

 

[Isilwen]

Wow that was fast. I feel like I just ordered Amazon prime.

Wigert's, the nursery I got it from is a little over two hours away from where I live.

 

[rockm]

(link removed!)
Here's a good one.
EDIT!
Ooooh!!

RockM, I think just meant making the cut concave.. so it heals over..

Here's a discussion on it.

Concave/Convex Cuts

In reading up on trunk chopping I came across many recommendations (at least for certain maples) to make the cuts somewhat concave to allow for better healing. Today I came across an article that recommended rounding the cuts on deciduous trees - i.e., a convex cut. Was wondering if anyone...

www.bonsainut.com

No. A "V" cut is exactly what the letter looks like. It is two part cut down into the trunk, creating a "V" shape. The cut tends to reduce the uniform swelling at the juncture of branches on the trunk. Flat cuts can swell as twigs grow into branches. A V can distribute that growth across more area. It's not completely necessary, but can provide a bit better result down the road.
This tree was created using one:

Hokidachi – Bonsai Today

Broom style

bonsaitoday.com

This post is worth a read as well:

Uniqueness in Brooms

I am starting to turn a lot more attention to brooms. What I found is that, for the most part, they look very similar to one another. In informal upright, trees can differentiate themselves with their trunk lines. However, since brooms generally don't have taper, are upright, and have...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[rockm]

That is a beautiful tree for sure!

So, broom it is for my tree.

Thank you for the suggestion, I am not sure on how to go about making a "v" cut though in the chop. I guess I can find instructions in the forums here or a quick Google search?

To make a cut requires a saw, or you can leave it alone, but the trunk stub behind all that branching at the top is going to require some kind of removal/treatment down the road--either a flat recut, or a removal of dead and unnecessary material( which can be done with a concave cutter). Should note that a fresh cut of a small portion of the top of the trunk into living tissue will force new budding and potential branches.

This saw would work:

Narrow Blade Bonsai Saw

This long, narrow blade of this saw is handy for tight spots and fine cuts. And it works for tasks that don't require a long blade too, like trimming branches and roots that are too thick for shears.Blade 11" (28cm), overall length 16.5" (42cm).

stonelantern.com

Concave cutter

American Bonsai Stainless Steel Flush Concave Cutter: Series 7 Slim

Our slim flush concave cutter removes woody branches with ease, leaving behind a clean concave cut. The 60 degree angle of the cutter head makes for an ideal cut flush to the trunk line. The flush concave cutter is primarily used for branch pruning work.

www.americanbonsai.com

 

[HorseloverFat]

No. A "V" cut is exactly what the letter looks like. It is two part cut down into the trunk, creating a "V" shape. The cut tends to reduce the uniform swelling at the juncture of branches on the trunk. Flat cuts can swell as twigs grow into branches. A V can distribute that growth across more area. It's not completely necessary, but can provide a bit better result down the road.
This tree was created using one:

Hokidachi – Bonsai Today

Broom style

bonsaitoday.com

This post is worth a read as well:

Uniqueness in Brooms

I am starting to turn a lot more attention to brooms. What I found is that, for the most part, they look very similar to one another. In informal upright, trees can differentiate themselves with their trunk lines. However, since brooms generally don't have taper, are upright, and have...

www.bonsainut.com

Haha! well DANGIT! I removed my original V-cut link!!!

 

[HorseloverFat]

To make a cut requires a saw, or you can leave it alone, but the trunk stub behind all that branching at the top is going to require some kind of removal/treatment down the road--either a flat recut, or a removal of dead and unnecessary material( which can be done with a concave cutter). Should note that a fresh cut of a small portion of the top of the trunk into living tissue will force new budding and potential branches.

This saw would work:

Narrow Blade Bonsai Saw

This long, narrow blade of this saw is handy for tight spots and fine cuts. And it works for tasks that don't require a long blade too, like trimming branches and roots that are too thick for shears.Blade 11" (28cm), overall length 16.5" (42cm).

stonelantern.com

Concave cutter

American Bonsai Stainless Steel Flush Concave Cutter: Series 7 Slim

Our slim flush concave cutter removes woody branches with ease, leaving behind a clean concave cut. The 60 degree angle of the cutter head makes for an ideal cut flush to the trunk line. The flush concave cutter is primarily used for branch pruning work.

www.americanbonsai.com

This is a great saw!!

I left mine in Hocking Hills state park... I believe it fell out/was misplaced near the "Devil's Bathtub".. so if anyone sees it....

 

[rockm]

Also, you should know that you have chosen one of the most difficult styles in bonsai. Brooms are not easy to create and maintain. Brooms require particular attention to thinning when needed and sometimes complete overhaul as they age.

Same for formal upright trees. Getting one to look "right" requires an understanding of proportion, branch placement and behavior of the species you're working on. It's a dance.

Both styles look simple, but like most great art, they're not what they appear.

 

[Isilwen]

Also, you should know that you have chosen one of the most difficult styles in bonsai. Brooms are not easy to create and maintain. Brooms require particular attention to thinning when needed and sometimes complete overhaul as they age.

Same for formal upright trees. Getting one to look "right" requires an understanding of proportion, branch placement and behavior of the species you're working on. It's a dance.

Both styles look simple, but like most great art, they're not what they appear.

I'm just not a fan of the curved styles, cascades or the like. The only two styles I like are broom and formal/informal uprights.

I just got to learn how to do these styles.

 

[rockm]

I'm just not a fan of the curved styles, cascades or the like. The only two styles I like are broom and formal/informal uprights.

I just got to learn how to do these styles.

Learning those two is not an exclusive thing. Shutting down experience with "curved styles" walls off most of the techniques (both artistic and horticultural) used in formal upright and broom styles.