Timing of Initial Styling

[Lonefrog]

Just a quick question for those who are more experienced than I. This is my first tree and I am curious regarding the best timing for the initial styling.

Tree: Juniper Procumbens Nana (Nursery stock)

My current local conditions: Summer's high heat as just ended and daytime highs are 86 degrees F with cool mornings 65 degrees F.

Question: From what I understand from my reading I would ideally want to wait until late winter (just before spring) to do the initial styling for this tree. Doing such heavy pruning now would subject the tree to slow healing and possible dieback during the winter. At this time I should be focused on proper fertilizing to promote spring growth. Am I understanding this information correctly?

Thanks for taking the time to help everyone! ?

 

[M. Frary]

Am I understanding this information correctly?

Perfectly!

 

[Mike Hennigan]

This is debatable and depends on your circumstances and climate. Styling this tree in late winter, as in wiring and putting substantial bends into the branches/trunk, would require protection from freezing temperatures for the rest of the winter. The last thing you would want after putting some gnarly bends in the branches is to let them freeze. If you have a temperature controlled greenhouse that would be the best protection probably. Or if you live in a mild climate this is more doable. The other part of styling at this time to consider, is that if you wait too long and spring starts, the increasing sap flow will make the cambium/bark so loose that any bending you do could be detrimental to that branch.

Conversely, if you don’t have some garage or greenhouse to keep the tree from freezing after styling, the second best time would be to do it now. Styling in late summer or early fall is totally acceptable for junipers. It gives enough time for any branches you have bent to heal before freezing temperatures arrive. Though I would say that if you wire the tree now/in the fall, try to keep more foliage on, and prune the unwanted foliage off at a later date.

I prefer to do the most intense styling work on junipers around this time, end of August, because I don’t own a greenhouse and I don’t have a garage so protection from freezing isn’t an option for me right now.

 

[Adair M]

Just a quick question for those who are more experienced than I. This is my first tree and I am curious regarding the best timing for the initial styling.

Tree: Juniper Procumbens Nana (Nursery stock)

My current local conditions: Summer's high heat as just ended and daytime highs are 86 degrees F with cool mornings 65 degrees F.

Question: From what I understand from my reading I would ideally want to wait until late winter (just before spring) to do the initial styling for this tree. Doing such heavy pruning now would subject the tree to slow healing and possible dieback during the winter. At this time I should be focused on proper fertilizing to promote spring growth. Am I understanding this information correctly?

Thanks for taking the time to help everyone! ?

@Lonefrog, you live in my neck of the woods, and what those guys who live in the frozen North dies not apply to you!

The time to wire and style (wire) is in the fall. In the fall, Junipers remove the fluid from their branches to prepare for winter. The branches kinda “dry up”. So, if you bend a branch, when the tree prepares for winter, it closes the microtears you created.

In summer, the branches are very turgid with water. This makes the live portion of the branch very soft. (Relatively speaking). If you wire a juniper in the summer, it’s very easy to “delaminate” it. That is, separate the live portion, the cambium et al, from the heartwood. And that can kill a branch.

Now, here’s the thing: with junipers, they almost always feature deadwood. Jins and Shari. Jins are bleached out dead branches. Shari are strips of exposed deadwood on the trunk. Tocreate these artificially, we strip the bark off a branch to make Jin, and cut a strip of bark on the trunk, and peel it off. These things are MUCH, MUCH easier to do in the summer when they are full of water! In the dead of winter, it’s almost impossible to remove the bark! You have to resort to using scrapers. And, the worst possible thing to do is just cut off all the green, killing the branch, and wait for it to die. A long dead branch’s bark is like cement!

So... what have I told you?

NOW is a good time to make Jin and Shari, late this fall is a good time to wire and style.

Two ways to go: create your jins now, then wire and style later, or wire and style in fall, but leave the branches you plan to Jin on until next summer. Then Jin them.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

@Lonefrog, you live in my neck of the woods, and what those guys who live in the frozen North dies not apply to you!

Should have looked at where he lives ???. It’s hard to neavigate this site with my frost bitten fingers. So ignore half of what I said, but “fall is a good time” rings true ?

 

[TN_Jim]

This is debatable and depends on your circumstances and climate. Styling this tree in late winter, as in wiring and putting substantial bends into the branches/trunk, would require protection from freezing temperatures for the rest of the winter. The last thing you would want after putting some gnarly bends in the branches is to let them freeze. If you have a temperature controlled greenhouse that would be the best protection probably. Or if you live in a mild climate this is more doable. The other part of styling at this time to consider, is that if you wait too long and spring starts, the increasing sap flow will make the cambium/bark so loose that any bending you do could be detrimental to that branch.

Conversely, if you don’t have some garage or greenhouse to keep the tree from freezing after styling, the second best time would be to do it now. Styling in late summer or early fall is totally acceptable for junipers. It gives enough time for any branches you have bent to heal before freezing temperatures arrive. Though I would say that if you wire the tree now/in the fall, try to keep more foliage on, and prune the unwanted foliage off at a later date.

I prefer to do the most intense styling work on junipers around this time, end of August, because I don’t own a greenhouse and I don’t have a garage so protection from freezing isn’t an option for me right now.

You came at this from all angles, appreciated..

@Lonefrog, this may go without saying (but not for me)...when you go into bends it is best to have some direct plan of where all major branches will go, and stick with it.

When I’ve followed through and been to myself like ...ya know what!!? ——-it’s been a good reminder from folks here that bends will break cambium and vascular tissue...and the results of doing so are not ideal, and prevent you from knowing if you were doing something at the right time to begin with

 

[Lonefrog]

Thank you all for your advice. I have a follow up question if you folks have the time to help.

I feel like I understand that as the fall sets in and the branches turn dryer I will have a good opportunity to wire the tree. I also understand that if jin and shari are not created now it will have to wait until next summer. What about the neccesary heavy pruning? Should this be done now? this fall? Should root pruning accompany this pruning of the foliage to balance the tree?

 

[Adair M]

Repot in the spring. That whole prune the roots to match the pruning of the top is bull hockey.

If you repot before styling, the wiggling around you do will mess up the newly grown roots. Style first. Then repot in March, 2019.

You should come to the classes I teach at Plant City Bonsai.

You CAN create Jin and Shari over the winter. It’s just much harder to do.

Heavy pruning can be done whenever. It doesn’t really matter on juniper. Branches are hardly ever removed in their entirety. They get cut back, and the the stubs are made into Jin.

 

[M. Frary]

The last thing you would want after putting some gnarly bends in the branches is to let them freeze

My pines get wired in the late summer early fall. Like I'll do one today. The wire stays on all winter with no ill effects. And it gets kind of cold here. I havent lost a branch yet.
Right now until winter is the best time to do big bands. The bark is on right. Less chance of slipping the bark when bending and twisting.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

My pines get wired in the late summer early fall. Like I'll do one today. The wire stays on all winter with no ill effects. And it gets kind of cold here. I havent lost a branch yet.
Right now until winter is the best time to do big bands. The bark is on right. Less chance of slipping the bark when bending and twisting.

Yes agreed, late summer/fall gives time for healing before freezes. Twisted up a Scots pine sapling yesterday. Was saying bending in late winter presents more of a danger with damage from freezing.

 

[M. Frary]

Yes agreed, late summer/fall gives time for healing before freezes. Twisted up a Scots pine sapling yesterday. Was saying bending in late winter presents more of a danger with damage from freezing.

I couldn't wire a tree in late winter if I wanted to. They're buried in snow and frozen solid to the ground.
But I wouldn't in if I could either.
Because you're right,they're brittle and you risk injuring the cadmium layer when it can't heal itself.

 

[Cable]

Branches are hardly ever removed in their entirety. They get cut back, and the the stubs are made into Jin.

Says you, paleface. lol/jk

Seriously, though, I thought you could also style junipers during summer dormancy? I saw it done in a workshop last August.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Repot in the spring. That whole prune the roots to match the pruning of the top is bull hockey.

If you repot before styling, the wiggling around you do will mess up the newly grown roots. Style first. Then repot in March, 2019.

You should come to the classes I teach at Plant City Bonsai.

You CAN create Jin and Shari over the winter. It’s just much harder to do.

Heavy pruning can be done whenever. It doesn’t really matter on juniper. Branches are hardly ever removed in their entirety. They get cut back, and the the stubs are made into Jin.

Hi Adair M,
I am a little confused with your advice. Although it is generalised, it seems that you would recommend pruning this 1-2 year baby, and do initial styling now. This is not at all similar to the advice I have been given here. It probably hasn’t come from you, but I would like your comments regarding the below comments.
“Try growing it for another 2-5 years in a bigger pot or ground to increase trunk girth”. And other comments “about cutting some/a lot of the foliage will only slow the growth of the overall tree”.
I have experienced trying to do the above styling and pruning as every newbie is given or buys this juniper “green mound”, and have only found doing anything is a major slowdown etc.

Not trying to pick on you, per say, but why some recommend working on these babies is confusing.
Charles

 

[Adair M]

Hi Adair M,
I am a little confused with your advice. Although it is generalised, it seems that you would recommend pruning this 1-2 year baby, and do initial styling now. This is not at all similar to the advice I have been given here. It probably hasn’t come from you, but I would like your comments regarding the below comments.
“Try growing it for another 2-5 years in a bigger pot or ground to increase trunk girth”. And other comments “about cutting some/a lot of the foliage will only slow the growth of the overall tree”.
I have experienced trying to do the above styling and pruning as every newbie is given or buys this juniper “green mound”, and have only found doing anything is a major slowdown etc.

Not trying to pick on you, per say, but why some recommend working on these babies is confusing.
Charles

I am equally confused by your question! The Subject tree is not a 1 to 2 year old tree. Although it’s probably not real old, either.

The advice I was talking about for when to work on junipers was generalized, discussing the characteristics of the way junipers grow, and how the live portion is loosely attached in the summer, but very tightly attached in the winter.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I don’t think the OP asked about thickening the trunk...

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

I am equally confused by your question! The Subject tree is not a 1 to 2 year old tree. Although it’s probably not real old, either.

The advice I was talking about for when to work on junipers was generalized, discussing the characteristics of the way junipers grow, and how the live portion is loosely attached in the summer, but very tightly attached in the winter.

Hi Adair M, and sorry for the “off the thread” topic. Unfortunately I am a slow learner as per forums and thought I could add information and a question into this thread, instead of me starting my own thread etc.
Charles.

 

[Silentrunning]

This thread is very timely for me. A few weeks ago I purchased the last 2 dwarf nanas from the local blue box because they were on sale and had very nice bases. They seemed quite light weight for their size so when I got home I checked them with the moisture meter. There was no moisture! I hydrated them immediately and have kept both foliage and soil well moistened for 3 weeks. They seem to be doing well.
My question is, because of the stress of dehydration should I just pamper them for a year or would it be safe to start pruning to thin them out and see what I have. The long range plan is to create a cascade with one or both (with a little help from my friends). @Adair M please jump in.

 

[Adair M]

You’re probably good to go.

 

[nagatay]

@Lonefrog, you live in my neck of the woods, and what those guys who live in the frozen North dies not apply to you!

The time to wire and style (wire) is in the fall. In the fall, Junipers remove the fluid from their branches to prepare for winter. The branches kinda “dry up”. So, if you bend a branch, when the tree prepares for winter, it closes the microtears you created.

In summer, the branches are very turgid with water. This makes the live portion of the branch very soft. (Relatively speaking). If you wire a juniper in the summer, it’s very easy to “delaminate” it. That is, separate the live portion, the cambium et al, from the heartwood. And that can kill a branch.

Now, here’s the thing: with junipers, they almost always feature deadwood. Jins and Shari. Jins are bleached out dead branches. Shari are strips of exposed deadwood on the trunk. Tocreate these artificially, we strip the bark off a branch to make Jin, and cut a strip of bark on the trunk, and peel it off. These things are MUCH, MUCH easier to do in the summer when they are full of water! In the dead of winter, it’s almost impossible to remove the bark! You have to resort to using scrapers. And, the worst possible thing to do is just cut off all the green, killing the branch, and wait for it to die. A long dead branch’s bark is like cement!

So... what have I told you?

NOW is a good time to make Jin and Shari, late this fall is a good time to wire and style.

Two ways to go: create your jins now, then wire and style later, or wire and style in fall, but leave the branches you plan to Jin on until next summer. Then Jin them.

does this approach also apply in zone 9a ?
Junipers are root pruned and potted in Feb.
does this include all evergreen. Thanks.

 

[Adair M]

does this approach also apply in zone 9a ?
Junipers are root pruned and potted in Feb.
does this include all evergreen. Thanks.

I don’t know. Do junipers go seasonally dormant there?